All-Star Teams Dropping Levels So They Can Win?

[amanda]

I don't feel as strongly about this as some of the posters, I don't think it's fair, but to get this worked up about it is quite pathetic itself. I have seen a few instances where I find this to be okay, for example PCT Cobras from Canada competes SO5 when they are here, they have decent level 5 stunting, and quite a few athletes who full, and overall a lot of jumps to back, but competing in America, they don't stand a chance in SO5, so for Indy they went level 4. I think in cases like this, I understand, not only crossing between countries, but even in the country. If you put your team level 4 with mostly tucks in tumbling, but you can stunt level 4, you are not going to be competitive at NCA or Cheersport against teams that jump, tumble, and stunt all at level 4. If it is a small competition where you are dropping a level simply to guarantee a win, I do not agree with it, but being so harsh on teams that just don't want their spanks handed to them at a large competition like NCA, Cheersport, Indy, etc. is a bit much.

teams like this shouldnt go to big competitions....

 

[Brooks44]

My senior 2 team is completely capable of being a level 3/4 team. Out of 20 we have 2 doubles 4 fulls 9 layouts 3 tucks and only 2 girls who are actually at the level 2 tumbling, but they are working to get tucks. We do dominate senior 2, but we were 3 last year and always placed in the middle. I agree with what people are saying. it's NOT cheating. you show level 2 skills and only level 2. We do what we do clean and nice and we perfect our difficulty. Thats what makes us a champion team, not that we are cheating. and if I must say being on both 5 & 2...2 is so much more energy

 

[amanda]

what would feel better..winning level 2 or placing top 3 in level 3-4? i would say placing top 3...one year i cheered on a team that was level 3 and my coach wanted to put us to level 2 because we got second at every competition. the whole team voted NO because that would be embarrassing to us. we didn't work soooo darn hard to accomplish the level 3 tumbling and stunting skills to not be able to show them off to our friends and family.

 

[Batch]

teams like this shouldnt go to big competitions...

I respectfully disagree... it is important for programs to challenge their athletes. Taking athletes to big competitions can be an excellent learning experience for both the cheerleaders, their families and the coaches... I know it has really helped our program!

 

[Just-a-Mom]

I don't think the OP was talking about crossovers, so I don't know why everyone keeps saying that was "the point". She was talking about WHOLE TEAMS going down a level. Meaning they competed all season successfully at Level 4--meaning they won their local comps and are a good Level 4. Then when a big comp comes along with big name teams that they want to be able to say they beat they suddenly register at that comp as Level 3 so they can win against the big names.

So if they're NOT a good Level 4 and they need to level down...this is NOT who she was talking about.

@luvhim381 If a Level 5 athlete crosses down to a Level 3 team it is NOT the same. Trust me--our Level 5 girls can do BHS back tuck in their sleep. And it is FLAWLESS. A true Level 3 athlete is throwing ROBHS tucks as their most difficult skill. So actually just because they have to compete level 3 skills...you don't think a Level 5 athlete can do Level 3 skills better than ANY actual Level 3 athlete? So I do think it's unfair, but obviously only if they're doing it to stack teams, not as a fill in.

 

[jandl]

I'm sure the OP was talking about teams that compete all year at a certain level and then drop levels to compete at bigger competitions. Cheersport is a good example of a team already with a world's bid perfoming in the SO5 division and blowing out the competition. They were amazing, but I feel that they took an opportunity away from several other teams that have been performing at that level all year.

 

[cheerluv]

I know of a team that has been level 4 all year, dropped to level 3 for NCA and won, and are back at level 4 for the rest of the season. Needless to say I've lost a lot of respect for that program........................


Before teams lose respect for other teams they should understand why teams drop! At NCA Nationals you cannot have crossovers! You can only cross level to level!!! This organization had a large level 3 and a small 4. They have crossovers within those teams but could not cross them due to not being level to level. Being its was their first time attending NCA Nationals, they did not find this rule out until a month before. So instead of Pushing there young Large level 3 team to go level 4 at NCA, they chose to drop there 4 to a 3 due to this rule. Most people dont realize that this Level 4 team has been struck by injuries all season.....2 major concussions, ankles, and back issues. They struggled the entire beginning o season and did not win due to revamping routines every week to accomidate these injuries! Dropping to a level 3 was all they could do to send two teams to NCA. Yes, that team is now back at level 4 and now just winning, and having a healthy team. So before people judge others......maybe we should know the real facts first? Just a thought.

 

[cheerluv]

I know of a team that has been level 4 all year, dropped to level 3 for NCA and won, and are back at level 4 for the rest of the season. Needless to say I've lost a lot of respect for that program.

Before teams lose respect for other teams they should understand why teams drop! At NCA Nationals you cannot have crossovers! You can only cross level to level!!! This organization had a large level 3 and a small 4. They have crossovers within those teams but could not cross them due to not being level to level. Being its was their first time attending NCA Nationals, they did not find this rule out until a month before. So instead of Pushing there young Large level 3 team to go level 4 at NCA, they chose to drop there 4 to a 3 due to this rule. Most people dont realize that this Level 4 team has been struck by injuries all season.....2 major concussions, ankles, and back issues. They struggled the entire beginning o season and did not win due to revamping routines every week to accomidate these injuries! Dropping to a level 3 was all they could do to send two teams to NCA. Yes, that team is now back at level 4 and now just winning, and having a healthy team. So before people judge others......maybe we should know the real facts first? Just a thought.

 

[CheerleaderC]

I don't think anyone should assume why these "successful" teams dropped down a level. No one knows but the team and coach themselves. Like the poster above said, rules are different for different competitions. Also, how do we know that there was not an injury? Or maybe some complex combination of both rules and injury? The coach will usually try to make the best decision for the team so that they can be competitive. Things change for a team from competition to competition. Cheerleading is a lot more complex then it used to be, and coaches make decisions for various reasons that sometimes the athletes themselves don't understand.

Theoretically, if your team can't max out their score sheet at the level they are in, they probably shouldn't be in that level. I know that coaches will put a team in a level they struggle in for various reasons, but if it upsets you that your team is being beat by higher level team that can max out the score sheet, which your team cannot do, maybe you need to drop down a level too.

 

[newcheerdad]

I don't think anyone should assume why these "successful" teams dropped down a level. No one knows but the team and coach themselves. Like the poster above said, rules are different for different competitions. Also, how do we know that there was not an injury? Or maybe some complex combination of both rules and injury? The coach will usually try to make the best decision for the team so that they can be competitive. Things change for a team from competition to competition. Cheerleading is a lot more complex then it used to be, and coaches make decisions for various reasons that sometimes the athletes themselves don't understand.

Theoretically, if your team can't max out their score sheet at the level they are in, they probably shouldn't be in that level. I know that coaches will put a team in a level they struggle in for various reasons, but if it upsets you that your team is being beat by higher level team that can max out the score sheet, which your team cannot do, maybe you need to drop down a level too.

Winning your local competitions doesn't necessarily mean you're a good level 4 team. Not all level 4 teams are created equal and not all areas are equally strong when it comes to cheer, so I can accept the premise that a team might decide to drop down a level if they felt they could be more competitive at a larger competition.

Now if this team was dominating local comps in deep divisions with strong opponents and THEN dropped down a level for NCA or Cheersport, I could see the argument.

Long-term, gyms aren't well-served to keep athletes at a level below their skills, because many of those kids will eventually get bored and want to go somewhere where they can compete at a higher level.

 

[CheerleaderC]

Winning your local competitions doesn't necessarily mean you're a good level 4 team. Not all level 4 teams are created equal and not all areas are equally strong when it comes to cheer, so I can accept the premise that a team might decide to drop down a level if they felt they could be more competitive at a larger competition.

Now if this team was dominating local comps in deep divisions with strong opponents and THEN dropped down a level for NCA or Cheersport, I could see the argument.

Long-term, gyms aren't well-served to keep athletes at a level below their skills, because many of those kids will eventually get bored and want to go somewhere where they can compete at a higher level.​

I totally agree with this. I just worry about catering to what athletes think is their level. Just because they can stunt at level 4 doesn't mean they can jump, tumble, etc. at level 4. In order to be a certain level, they should have the full package.

Also, what is considered mastering a level for an athlete? Is level 3 tumbling? rbh with a poorly executed tuck? I think there are coaches who will take athletes that have layouts and put them in level 3 with a nicely executed tuck, therefore getting full marks for technique (hopefully ). I don't think this is necessarily wrong, and until the athletes progress, keep them in that level. Hopefully the full team can progress together, which does not always happen! yikes! There is nothing to say they cannot practice these higher level skills at practice in order to progress!

And Im not saying that teams can't go for a level that they are not maxing out! Im sure its great experience, exciting, and can inspire athletes, as long as you are being safe! Just maybe don't be surprised if you get beat by a team who can max out the skills, regardless if they should be in that level or not. If it does upset, maybe a level change is in order.

 

[feelingfierce]

Teams drop levels all the time so they can win. Yes, it's unfair & sucks, but hey, in the end we all wanna win right?!

 

[stormynights]

I doubt the person means them crossing due to injuries.. if an athlete needs to cross due to injuries, that is a different situation than placing athletes capable of level 5 on level 3 for an advantage

Thanks chyeeaaa69! I did not mean crossing due to injuries...that is unavoidable.

 

[ECEcheerfreak]

I know of a team that has been level 4 all year, dropped to level 3 for NCA and won, and are back at level 4 for the rest of the season. Needless to say I've lost a lot of respect for that program........................


Before teams lose respect for other teams they should understand why teams drop! At NCA Nationals you cannot have crossovers! You can only cross level to level!!! This organization had a large level 3 and a small 4. They have crossovers within those teams but could not cross them due to not being level to level. Being its was their first time attending NCA Nationals, they did not find this rule out until a month before. So instead of Pushing there young Large level 3 team to go level 4 at NCA, they chose to drop there 4 to a 3 due to this rule. Most people dont realize that this Level 4 team has been struck by injuries all season.....2 major concussions, ankles, and back issues. They struggled the entire beginning o season and did not win due to revamping routines every week to accomidate these injuries! Dropping to a level 3 was all they could do to send two teams to NCA. Yes, that team is now back at level 4 and now just winning, and having a healthy team. So before people judge others......maybe we should know the real facts first? Just a thought.

I have friends who are associated with that gym and from what I heard, the large senior 3 had plans all season to move up to level 4.

 

[CoachJessNHS]

I know of a team that has been level 4 all year, dropped to level 3 for NCA and won, and are back at level 4 for the rest of the season. Needless to say I've lost a lot of respect for that program........................


Before teams lose respect for other teams they should understand why teams drop! At NCA Nationals you cannot have crossovers! You can only cross level to level!!! This organization had a large level 3 and a small 4. They have crossovers within those teams but could not cross them due to not being level to level. Being its was their first time attending NCA Nationals, they did not find this rule out until a month before. So instead of Pushing there young Large level 3 team to go level 4 at NCA, they chose to drop there 4 to a 3 due to this rule. Most people dont realize that this Level 4 team has been struck by injuries all season.....2 major concussions, ankles, and back issues. They struggled the entire beginning o season and did not win due to revamping routines every week to accomidate these injuries! Dropping to a level 3 was all they could do to send two teams to NCA. Yes, that team is now back at level 4 and now just winning, and having a healthy team. So before people judge others......maybe we should know the real facts first? Just a thought.

That is so totally understandable! Things like that happen and sometimes that is all you can do! When it comes to dropping levels, there is definitely 2 sides to this discussion. Maybe even a double standard! The understandable side being injuries, teams needing to drop because they honestly should..maybe it being a mistake going into a higher level in the first place. And the not so understandable side being teams that drop for one reason only - to win..Not because their scores aren't high enough in some areas, but because they just simply want to win!

The thing that really stinks is that it is so legal and there's nothing anyone can do about it. No rules being broken or anything. And of course every team is different...different reasons, different stories and situations. It definitely doesn't hurt to know the real facts of why a team is moving down. But if there aren't any reasons to move down, that's what I don't like!