All-Star Unethical Or Helping The Team?

[ImALiLRebL]

Simply put... If you had to ask others for their opinion on it, you're questioning if you should do it yourself. If you're questioning if you should do it, don't... Too often we don't listen to that little voice in our head called REASON (you know the one that used to make this world turn round the right way and made people feel good about themselves)...we tell it to shush up all the time instead... And go seeking everyone else's opinion except for the opinion that really matters -our conscious and good sense.

- to me it isn't about the crossovers, the skill level... The whatever... If you are having a bit of a gut check, there's a reason for it.

I agree with you. It's not me personally. I was familiar with the situation & thought 'WHY would you get athletes from outside your gym to come & compete 3 levels below their skill level?' Then I thought, 'well, what would I do in their shoes?' & I was curious as to what others thought as well. It's bery interesting & informative to hear the opinions & experiences of parents, coaches & athletes from gyms of various sizes.

 

[CheerItFullOut]

I agree with you. It's not me personally. I was familiar with the situation & thought 'WHY would you get athletes from outside your gym to come & compete 3 levels below their skill level?' Then I thought, 'well, what would I do in their shoes?' & I was curious as to what others thought as well. It's bery interesting & informative to hear the opinions & experiences of parents, coaches & athletes from gyms of various sizes.

I gotcha

 

[SL&AM]

That's why I was curious to see how other people thought they might feel if they were in that situation. From the outside looking in, I think it's unethical. However, if it were my child, my friends, etc. how would I feel then?? It probably wouldn't occur to me that it was unethical, especially if I was blind to the gym's shady practices.

My answer when it comes to CP is pretty simple---as long as she wants to cheer, I will facilitate whatever I need to to allow her to keep doing so as long as it is legal. So yeah, if her team was done and she was asked to help out and would continue to cheer for another month, why not---this sport is supposed to be competitive AND fun, competing is kinda the fun part. An example from this weekend, we went to a comp and took our S2 team. Our team group doesn't generally travel with the seniors so it was a nice change. However, between injuries and illness, three team members had to be replaced. One is working fulls and the other 2 I think came from either J3, S4 or S4.2; so if I had to wager a guess, all 3 were beyond level 2 skills (I don't know these kids as well, so this is an educated guess). The team competed and didn't win; they did well, the gym is super proud of them for what they accomplished, but even replacing those 3 kids with at-to-higher level kids didn't guarantee a win. So immediately jumping to the "OMG it's unethical" doesn't do it for me. I could see the argument being made if you replaced the point flyer, the last pass, and center dancer with world champion athletes (not just a Level 5 team that goes and chuke's it on the mat, I mean teams who go and do well) making a huge difference---but from the sounds of it, this Level 5 athlete was on a team that wasn't Level 5 ready and therefore, are they really an actual Level 5 athlete?

 

[ImALiLRebL]

My answer when it comes to CP is pretty simple---as long as she wants to cheer, I will facilitate whatever I need to to allow her to keep doing so as long as it is legal. So yeah, if her team was done and she was asked to help out and would continue to cheer for another month, why not---this sport is supposed to be competitive AND fun, competing is kinda the fun part. An example from this weekend, we went to a comp and took our S2 team. Our team group doesn't generally travel with the seniors so it was a nice change. However, between injuries and illness, three team members had to be replaced. One is working fulls and the other 2 I think came from either J3, S4 or S4.2; so if I had to wager a guess, all 3 were beyond level 2 skills (I don't know these kids as well, so this is an educated guess). The team competed and didn't win; they did well, the gym is super proud of them for what they accomplished, but even replacing those 3 kids with at-to-higher level kids didn't guarantee a win. So immediately jumping to the "OMG it's unethical" doesn't do it for me. I could see the argument being made if you replaced the point flyer, the last pass, and center dancer with world champion athletes (not just a Level 5 team that goes and chuke's it on the mat, I mean teams who go and do well) making a huge difference---but from the sounds of it, this Level 5 athlete was on a team that wasn't Level 5 ready and therefore, are they really an actual Level 5 athlete?

I might buy into it if the athlete mentioned hadn't also decided to sit out of all-star cheer. So, I don't think it's the athlete wanting to do it. & yes, the athlete does have level 5 skills. Without going into detail (a whole different thread) yes, the athlete(s) did make a HUGE difference @ the most recent competition (unless it was sheer coincidence). Unfortunately, when the original team competed (without the addition of these 'fill-ins') the outcomes were far different.
I understand that there are always going to be athletes with higher skills on teams. Everyone doesn't progress @ the same rate & a gym can't create an entire level 4 team because 1-2 athletes have level 4 skills. Obviously the more skilled athletes would be on the highest level team available @ their gym until there were enough athletes to create a full level 4 team. I get that. In this case however, it wasn't done because of injury or illness, It was done intentionally to gain an unfair advantage & it worked for them. I guess it was easier for them to pull in kids that had already mastered more difficult skills instead of actually coaching & improving the team they had. What satisfaction is there in that? Although, no matter what they do, they would never be real competition for big name teams.

 

[catlady]

I've gone through the thread and shimmied comments on both sides of the fence so, there's that for decisiveness. I've thought about the gym who brings their Sr. level 2 and R 5 to NCA or the Summit and an athlete gets injured Day 1 on level 2. Personally, I go back and forth with sympathizing with them for not being able to pull an athlete from R 5 to fill in, to celebrating the fact the rules are getting more strict. To be honest, I'm not nearly as concerned with a gym pulling an athlete or two to fill in, when needed. What needs to stop yesterday is this nonsense of replacing athletes or creating teams just to get lower level bids, then in some cases holding another tryout for the event. That's beyond the unethical spectrum, and in theory, they've pulled the plug and chanted their ABC's backwards in Swahili to every team in their so-called division.

 

[quietmom]

I've gone through the thread and shimmied comments on both sides of the fence so, there's that for decisiveness. I've thought about the gym who brings their Sr. level 2 and R 5 to NCA or the Summit and an athlete gets injured Day 1 on level 2. Personally, I go back and forth with sympathizing with them for not being able to pull an athlete from R 5 to fill in, to celebrating the fact the rules are getting more strict. To be honest, I'm not nearly as concerned with a gym pulling an athlete or two to fill in, when needed. What needs to stop yesterday is this nonsense of replacing athletes or creating teams just to get lower level bids, then in some cases holding another tryout for the event. That's beyond the unethical spectrum, and in theory, they've pulled the plug and chanted their ABC's backwards in Swahili to every team in their so-called division.

^this

 

[Official OWECheer]

they've pulled the plug and chanted their ABC's backwards in Swahili to every team in their so-called division.

I'm stealing this.

And for the record, I love the perspective you bring to threads.

 

[catlady]

Thanks @Official OWECheer , I'm a combination of many years in corporate, mixed with many years as mom. So, essentially, "What's the cost? What's the risk? What's the timeline? Give me the bullet points. Mixed with...Tell me all about it. There's always two sides. It's a life lesson. Here's a hug." I'm 100% conflicted in my brain 100% of the time.

 

[AlwaysLearning]

I've gone through the thread and shimmied comments on both sides of the fence so, there's that for decisiveness. I've thought about the gym who brings their Sr. level 2 and R 5 to NCA or the Summit and an athlete gets injured Day 1 on level 2. Personally, I go back and forth with sympathizing with them for not being able to pull an athlete from R 5 to fill in, to celebrating the fact the rules are getting more strict. To be honest, I'm not nearly as concerned with a gym pulling an athlete or two to fill in, when needed. What needs to stop yesterday is this nonsense of replacing athletes or creating teams just to get lower level bids, then in some cases holding another tryout for the event. That's beyond the unethical spectrum, and in theory, they've pulled the plug and chanted their ABC's backwards in Swahili to every team in their so-called division.

I struggle with this as well. One level 5 athlete on a level 2/3 team won't earn the team a jacket or ring. I support the opportunity to bring in someone in a pinch so the rest of the team doesn't suffer from the loss of a teammate for a comp or 2. Unfortunately, that rule has been exploited to the extent that lower level teams are competing against level 5 athletes. Those people are causing stricter rules to be made which will only hurt the smaller to medium sized gyms in the end.