All-Star Universal Scoresheet Props To The Usasf

[kristenthegreat]

I really hope that the universal scoresheet will spread around the globe.
Does anyone know if ICU will use it, too?

I'm unfamiliar with the process required to actually compete in the ICU (is it a regional qualifier, video submission, open to all, etc). If there is a qualification process, does the scoresheet vary between your qualifier and the major competition?

Or are you talking about the international divisions at USASF Worlds? Because in that case, maybe by 2016-2017, it could be that all international teams intending to compete at Worlds must get their bid at an event that uses the universal score sheet. Or some such requirement to expedite the process. Or maybe they'll just adopt it on their own when they know one exists.

 

[12stepCheermom]

Can we unearth this thread for an update? @King how did the beta testing go? Any info for possible changes for 14-15? #pleasesayyes


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[yojaehs]

Can we unearth this thread for an update? @King how did the beta testing go? Any info for possible changes for 14-15? #pleasesayyes


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I pray this happens sooner rather than later. However my fear is that without a Code of Points a Universal Score Sheet will still have many holes in it.


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[12stepCheermom]

I pray this happens sooner rather than later. However my fear is that without a Code of Points a Universal Score Sheet will still have many holes in it.


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Yes! Because "raw score" needs to actually mean what your routine (in total) is actually worth. Even educated cheer people still think "raw score" means something akin to what it means in diving and gymnastics and it completely doesn't mean that.

It would be better titled "gross" and "net" score. At least that is closer to the actual function as it is.


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[5-6-7-8]

Yes! Because "raw score" needs to actually mean what your routine (in total) is actually worth. Even educated cheer people still think "raw score" means something akin to what it means in diving and gymnastics and it completely doesn't mean that.

It would be better titled "gross" and "net" score. At least that is closer to the actual function as it is.


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I still love @King's (I think it was his?) idea of having a judge not in the arena, but reviewing on video, who is responsible for the "base difficulty" score. Another option would be to have a team submit their "base difficulty" score and have a video judge basically check off what is supposed to be in the routine (though I get there can always be last minute changes for different circumstances.)

Bottom line is that there should be a portion of the score that is set. That would be a huge step in the right direction. There will always be subjectivity, but if we can make the objective part as accurate as possible, that would be awesome.


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[12stepCheermom]

I still love @King's (I think it was his?) idea of having a judge not in the arena, but reviewing on video, who is responsible for the "base difficulty" score. Another option would be to have a team submit their "base difficulty" score and have a video judge basically check off what is supposed to be in the routine (though I get there can always be last minute changes for different circumstances.)

Bottom line is that there should be a portion of the score that is set. That would be a huge step in the right direction. There will always be subjectivity, but if we can make the objective part as accurate as possible, that would be awesome.


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Absolutely agree. A straight double should be worth X, Arabian to double Y, straight up stretch to double down should be worth X, full up immediate stretch to double down Y etc.

Deductions and how well you execute what you choreographed would be where the variance comes from. But every skill should have its own "start value."

Then "raw score" would actually mean something.

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[NoOneSpecial]

I still love @King's (I think it was his?) idea of having a judge not in the arena, but reviewing on video, who is responsible for the "base difficulty" score. Another option would be to have a team submit their "base difficulty" score and have a video judge basically check off what is supposed to be in the routine (though I get there can always be last minute changes for different circumstances.)

Bottom line is that there should be a portion of the score that is set. That would be a huge step in the right direction. There will always be subjectivity, but if we can make the objective part as accurate as possible, that would be awesome.


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Acro & Tumbling submit the skills they are competing at a meet a week before competition and everything is scored with a start value. Execution only becomes the final score. This includes team routine.

Team routines have a max point of 110. I know we went into Nationals with a start value of around 108 - injuries occurred days before nationals, however coach reworked parts of the team routine to replace the tumbling skill lost into other areas and maintained the start value.

 

[SarahS]

Absolutely agree. A straight double should be worth X, Arabian to double Y, straight up stretch to double down should be worth X, full up immediate stretch to double down Y etc.

Deductions and how well you execute what you choreographed would be where the variance comes from. But every skill should have its own "start value."

Then "raw score" would actually mean something.

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Although I appreciate the idea behind this, the execution of it would be nearly impossible, because routine choreography allows basically infinite combinations. Gymnastics is one thing, when there is one person performing skills one at a time. When you're talking about a team that can have multiple things going on at one time, how do you codify each and every skill, every skill entry, every variation of dismount, without limiting choreography choices out of necessity? Routines would become basically compulsory because coaches would have to comply with the code of points. I'm not against a code of points for certain things (jumps, for instance) but I'm not sure how easily a code of points for all skills would be, nor how satisfying, for coaches/athletes/fans, it actually would be.

 

[12stepCheermom]

Although I appreciate the idea behind this, the execution of it would be nearly impossible, because routine choreography allows basically infinite combinations. Gymnastics is one thing, when there is one person performing skills one at a time. When you're talking about a team that can have multiple things going on at one time, how do you codify each and every skill, every skill entry, every variation of dismount, without limiting choreography choices out of necessity? Routines would become basically compulsory because coaches would have to comply with the code of points. I'm not against a code of points for certain things (jumps, for instance) but I'm not sure how easily a code of points for all skills would be, nor how satisfying, for coaches/athletes/fans, it actually would be.

How does acro and tumbling do it? Maybe borrow a page from their book.


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[Official OWECheer]

test this year by scoring teams along with their current scoring (so closed beta no one sees), adjust base off data and test more next year, release at worlds 2015, and up for use by everyone in 2015-2016.

Now I'm really excited for 2015-2016! Full tops for younger teams AND a realiable scoresheet!

 

[Official OWECheer]

Yes! Because "raw score" needs to actually mean what your routine (in total) is actually worth. Even educated cheer people still think "raw score" means something akin to what it means in diving and gymnastics and it completely doesn't mean that.

It would be better titled "gross" and "net" score. At least that is closer to the actual function as it is.


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I agree, I bore that misconception until NCA when someone explained it to me.

 

[LabbyGirlMOM]

So I was all for a universal score sheet and now I am really not sure after talking with others I think it might hurt cheer more then help.

Who gets to come up with said score sheet?
How will they make event producers only use 1 score sheet?

These could be silly questions and it could just be my ignorance of the sport and scoring that is leading me to these questions.

 

[kristenthegreat]

Although I appreciate the idea behind this, the execution of it would be nearly impossible, because routine choreography allows basically infinite combinations. Gymnastics is one thing, when there is one person performing skills one at a time. When you're talking about a team that can have multiple things going on at one time, how do you codify each and every skill, every skill entry, every variation of dismount, without limiting choreography choices out of necessity? Routines would become basically compulsory because coaches would have to comply with the code of points. I'm not against a code of points for certain things (jumps, for instance) but I'm not sure how easily a code of points for all skills would be, nor how satisfying, for coaches/athletes/fans, it actually would be.

Have separate 'items'. Mounts/dismounts, baskets, transitions, etc. In level 5, for example, double up to 2 feet is worth 'X' points. Double up to one foot is 'Y', with potential bonus points for connecting it to something besides a lib. Tumbling would codify by skills in 'blocks' (ie 3 to double or whatever), running could have 'connection bonus' for adding in whips, etc..

Due to rules alone, we're basically at somewhat compulsory routines, it's really only the fluff transitions that add anything 'wow.' And that would maybe affect choreography points day-of.

 

[chyeeaaa69]

So I was all for a universal score sheet and now I am really not sure after talking with others I think it might hurt cheer more then help.

Who gets to come up with said score sheet?
How will they make event producers only use 1 score sheet?

These could be silly questions and it could just be my ignorance of the sport and scoring that is leading me to these questions.

If I remember correctly, most if not all of the major EPs were working together to create this scoresheet, so as to essentially pull the best from events like Jamfest, NCA, Worlds, etc.

 

[just_kay_today]

Absolutely agree. A straight double should be worth X, Arabian to double Y, straight up stretch to double down should be worth X, full up immediate stretch to double down Y etc.

Deductions and how well you execute what you choreographed would be where the variance comes from. But every skill should have its own "start value."

Then "raw score" would actually mean something.

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I agree with this as far as skills are concerned. A double full executed well, will always be a double full. There is no subjectivity around that. That part of the scoresheet, jumps, tumbling, stunts (a heel stretch, with great flexibility is just that), pyramid, etc. Assign a value to each element, and deduct accordingly. Let each coach submit the number of skills and their value in each routine. If there are changes, they have to be submitted the morning of the performance.