All-Star Varsity Deduction/scoring Calculation

[rmo15]

Does anyone know why deductions are taken out before calculating the % of perfection score? For example, at an event today, our score was 46.5/50 in level 1 (before 1.25 of deductions). So they took deductions out which lowered it to 45.25, which then gave us a 90.5%.

Say that they calculated our score to be 46.5/50, or 93%, and then took out the deduction. That would be 91.75%, which is a huge difference.

Part of my thinking is that 1 point in level 1 is really worth "2%". Then, when senior 4 goes and they also get docked 1.25, since their score is out of 82, their deduction isn't "worth" as much. I'm also thinking in terms of companies selecting teams for summit bids..to me, you should be scored on routine for % of perfection and take deductions off at the end. Has anyone run into this/have any thoughts? Just a heartbreaking day for our girl that stepped out of a knee stunt in an otherwise beautiful routine...

 

[cheernerd5678]

We do jam brands which does it the other way. The scoring system is so different that it's not really comparable but I don't like that you can get 1 point of deductions but that's not = to one point extra on the rest of your routine. Having the difficulty to get your stunt score 1 pt higher than the other team isn't enough to make up for your 1 point deduction. I think I'd like it better taken off before, but on jam brands our original scores are out of more, and our final score is % of perfection.


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[King]

Does anyone know why deductions are taken out before calculating the % of perfection score? For example, at an event today, our score was 46.5/50 in level 1 (before 1.25 of deductions). So they took deductions out which lowered it to 45.25, which then gave us a 90.5%.

Say that they calculated our score to be 46.5/50, or 93%, and then took out the deduction. That would be 91.75%, which is a huge difference.

Part of my thinking is that 1 point in level 1 is really worth "2%". Then, when senior 4 goes and they also get docked 1.25, since their score is out of 82, their deduction isn't "worth" as much. I'm also thinking in terms of companies selecting teams for summit bids..to me, you should be scored on routine for % of perfection and take deductions off at the end. Has anyone run into this/have any thoughts? Just a heartbreaking day for our girl that stepped out of a knee stunt in an otherwise beautiful routine...

The more difficult skills have smaller deductions.

 

[rmo15]

Yes, and should they really? Relatively speaking, a level 2 stunt for a level 2 athlete is "just" as difficult as a level 4 stunt for a level 4 athlete. A fall is a fall, and using these deductions before calculating percentage is magnifying them even more, and in the lower levels, it makes a huge difference...especially on Day 2 worth 75% of your score! Just mathematically speaking, I am surprised they don't calculate the % of perfection first, and then subtract deductions from that whole number. I think it makes more sense across the board. I love a clean routine and Varsity wanted to promote cleanliness by making things less rigid and more about the whole team (as in saying "most" will max out, etc.) but I feel the way they calculate scores doesn't agree with that. I didn't realize this as it was the first time we got a deduction this season. Maybe something to look at for the future...just my thoughts!

 

[BlueCat]

It is much more difficult for a typical L5 team to get zero deductions in their routine than a typical L1 - in large part because they tend to have far more deduction-eligible events in their routines.

 

[DaniV]

@Rudags - was it you who posted something along these lines on the ASGA fb page during Cheersport?

Especially with Summit bids being handed out based on percent perfection, theoretically it does make it alot easier for a higher level team to get a higher percent perfection score with mistakes.

 

[Rudags]

@Rudags - was it you who posted something along these lines on the ASGA fb page during Cheersport?

Especially with Summit bids being handed out based on percent perfection, theoretically it does make it alot easier for a higher level team to get a higher percent perfection score with mistakes.

Yes. That was me. We were at an event where my Junior 1 AND Senior 2 both won their division and actually both got Level 1 Grand Champs and Level 2 Grand Champs. Both of my teams hit deduction free and Id like to think both are very clean. Even hitting deduction free, My J1 only scored a 91.2. I thought it was very low. My Senior 2 only scored a 92.6, again, IMO very low. Attached is a video of my J1 so you can see:

The problem is that Varsity's scoring has never had to compare a Level 1 vs a Level 5 so it didnt matter - But now with the Summit - They need to make changes. It was VERY hard to explain to Level 1 and 2 Parents why they got grand with no SUmmit bid when our J3 had deductions both days, got 2nd place and scored a 96.something.

What it comes down to is that the system hits lower levels harder.

 

[Rudags]

Here is an email I wrote to the EP:

"I wanted to share some thoughts with you on Varsity scoring. As you know, we haven't attended Varsity events for quite some time now and gave it a go this year. I have been quite happy with our scores this far up until this past weekend. However, that is neither here nor there, It is just a lesson learned. However, regardless, my teams both got first place so I cant complain about placements but I was not happy with my low % perfection in attempt for a Summit Bid.



We decided this year to attempt to go to the Summit. Anyway, my concern is that Varsity's Tier scoring does not benefit the lower level teams achieve a good % Perfection Score.



For example below is a breakdown of scores (I know you know this, I am just talking out loud)



Max Scores:

Level 1: 50

Level 2: 64

Level 3: 70

Level 4: 82

Level 5: 100



If each team has 4 points shy of perfection

Level 1: 46/50 = 92%

Level 2: 60/64 = 93.75%

Level 3: 66/70 = 94.29%

Level 4: 78/82 = 95.12%

Level 5: 96/100 = 96%



All of the above scores are a perfect routine minus the 4 points away from perfection, so shouldn't all of them be more similar?



Why cant all teams be on the 9.0 Scale to level the playing field for % Perfection?



If we were to keep the current Tier scoring, shouldn't deductions be weighted more for higher levels?



Below is a weighted 1 point deduction per team if they were all 4 points shy of perfection:



Level 1: 45/50 = 90% compares to 92% = 2% Difference

Level 2: 59/64 = 92.19% compares to 93.75 = 1.56% Difference

Level 3: 65/70 = 92.86% compares to 94.29% = 1.43% Difference

Level 4: 77/82 = 93.9% compares to 95.12% = 1.22% Difference

Level 5: 95/100 = 95% compares to 96% = 1% Difference



Being a Level 1 team gets 2% of their score knocked down as opposed to a Level 1 getting only 1%.



Ideally this would be fine as there has never been a reason care about comparing Level 1-5 teams across the board. However, now that summit bids are being rewarded, and a lot of EP's are going off the "6 Highest Scores" (Assuming they are giving 6 bids which is the most common), it is playing a roll.

 

[BlueCat]

We have every level of team in our gym, including teams that won NCA at both ends of the spectrum. A great level 1 team has a DRAMATICALLY easier time hitting a zero deduction routine than even a world-class level 5 one. The number and difficulty of skills (even adjusted to their own ability level) is not remotely the same.

 

[King]

While Summit bids should be awards per level anyway, mathematically it makes sense how it works currently. We all assume because a team is in level 4 they could score level 4 in every category. But level 4 is a scoring cap, not a floor. You have to perform skills in every section that qualify for level 4. So there is an advantage to competing up in more difficulty levels and that is a higher chance at a summit bid.

 

[mamabear]

. Attached is a video of my J1 so you can see:

I love this routine, especially the teddy bear stunt sequence

 

[lclelan]

Quick question regarding deductions. In the case of an illegal transition performed by the whole team (5 stunt groups) will the 1.0 point deduction be applied per stunt group? Or would it be 1.0 off total?


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[Cheer4lyfe]

Not to hijack this thread but I have a little rant. We attended a national Competition this weekend through a vendor who doesn't follow the varsity or jam brands scoring system. In their score system they do not deduct for bobbles but they deduct a whopping 5 points for every fall or omitted stunt and 3 points for every touch down. This works out to nearly a 10% deduction on their score. At this competition our youth 1 team competed a flawless routine, so when they received 4th place we were stunned. When we received the score sheets we received a 5 point safety deduction for a show n go passing through an extended position over one of the 2 bases heads ( the right base was about 2" shorter then the other side). I was beyond livid. We had to watch the video 3 times from 2 different angles to see it. No warning, just a huge deduction. They would have placed 2nd, which they deserved. Worst part is we competed that same skill do e the same way at 2 of their competitions without so much as a warning. I thought about emailing my concerns but didn't want it to come out like sour grapes has anyone had this happen to you? Suggestions on what to do next?

 

[SarahS]

Not to hijack this thread but I have a little rant. We attended a national Competition this weekend through a vendor who doesn't follow the varsity or jam brands scoring system. In their score system they do not deduct for bobbles but they deduct a whopping 5 points for every fall or omitted stunt and 3 points for every touch down. This works out to nearly a 10% deduction on their score. At this competition our youth 1 team competed a flawless routine, so when they received 4th place we were stunned. When we received the score sheets we received a 5 point safety deduction for a show n go passing through an extended position over one of the 2 bases heads ( the right base was about 2" shorter then the other side). I was beyond livid. We had to watch the video 3 times from 2 different angles to see it. No warning, just a huge deduction. They would have placed 2nd, which they deserved. Worst part is we competed that same skill do e the same way at 2 of their competitions without so much as a warning. I thought about emailing my concerns but didn't want it to come out like sour grapes has anyone had this happen to you? Suggestions on what to do next?

Edit - just asking for clarification here, because something occurred to me - the foot of the flyer was not above the head of one base, but above the head of the other base? Wouldn't that be considered the same as a prep-level hitch with a flyer's foot in each base's hands? Wouldn't that be legal?

 

[Cheer4lyfe]

Edit - just asking for clarification here, because something occurred to me - the foot of the flyer was not above the head of one base, but above the head of the other base? Wouldn't that be considered the same as a prep-level hitch with a flyer's foot in each base's hands? Wouldn't that be legal?

I NEVER thought about that! You are absolutely right! I am trying to figure out how to post a screen shot, so that you can put a picture to the concept.