All-Star Crossovers And Sandbagging

[12stepCheermom]

I know we talk about sandbagging as taking kids from higher teams and using them on lower teams, or dropping higher teams completely to a lower level, but how about gyms that just keep their kids on a youth 2 for example for 2, 3, 4 years in a row without ever advancing the entire team to the next level even though they all may have level 3 or even solid level 4 skills? Wouldn't that be considered sandbagging as well, especially if that same group of youth 2 kids win every or almost every competition season after season? Or are we at a point in cheer where this is just considered strategic and winning in this manner is commendable?

Preach. I can think of a team that fits this description well. When they came out at a recent competition and the people I was with who had never seen them before just had their jaws on the floor (this team I'm thinking of is highly atypical for their division) I just shrugged. Were not in that division personally but I feel bad for the kids that were. There were R5s on this team competing level 2. Oddly, I wouldn't be down with that if I were a parent but the ones I've seen on social media are not only good with it, they get downright testy when people question why their level 5 is on a level 2. Makes very little sense to me unless winning is just that important.

 

[SheCheers]

I know we talk about sandbagging as taking kids from higher teams and using them on lower teams, or dropping higher teams completely to a lower level, but how about gyms that just keep their kids on a youth 2 for example for 2, 3, 4 years in a row without ever advancing the entire team to the next level even though they all may have level 3 or even solid level 4 skills? Wouldn't that be considered sandbagging as well, especially if that same group of youth 2 kids win every or almost every competition season after season? Or are we at a point in cheer where this is just considered strategic and winning in this manner is commendable?

Oooohh I know about this... It's the gym that tells the kids/parents they'll probably not make the next level up team next season because they have to have "ALL" the level X skills. Have a full, but can't do a punch front forward roll? Sorry, you don't have all the level 3 skills, we have to keep you on 2. Never based a one leg extension? Same...staying on 2. Oh, that's adorable, you're a flyer with a whip through to layout, but you've never done a kick full basket? Sorry, you don't have all your level 4 skills. You're going to have to stay level 3. Hey, but we are winning! Woohoo! I don't care if my kid is being held back so we can brag about all our trophies!

ETA: I'd rather be at the gym that says don't have X skill, here let me teach you! Even if it means they aren't going to win every competition. At least then we are learning that 1) winning at all costs isn't necessary and 2) gaining skills and advancing.

 

[12stepCheermom]

Oooohh I know about this... It's the gym that tells the kids/parents they'll probably not make the next level up team next season because they have to have "ALL" the level X skills. Have a full, but can't do a punch front forward roll? Sorry, you don't have all the level 3 skills, we have to keep you on 2. Never based a one leg extension? Same...staying on 2. Oh, that's adorable, you're a flyer with a whip through to layout, but you've never done a kick full basket? Sorry, you don't have all your level 4 skills. You're going to have to stay level 3. Hey, but we are winning! Woohoo! I don't care if my kid is being held back so we can brag about all our trophies!

ETA: I'd rather be at the gym that says don't have X skill, here let me teach you! Even if it means they aren't going to win every competition. At least then we are learning that 1) winning at all costs isn't necessary and 2) gaining skills and advancing.

THIS.

Disclaimer: this is general commentary about the state of the industry NOT our current (or former, honestly) gyms. Especially our current gym is doing all they can to ameliorate these things. That being said....

Sometimes I think I was just uneducated in the beginning and didn't see it, but we've been in this nine years now and the industry has changed so much. I HAVE been educated the last several years and I've seen it, and not in a good way.

Stacking and blatantly sandbagged teams at every competition at multiple divisions just for the almighty jacket (it's why I like worlds level 5, you can't sandbag it). Scoring drama at seemingly every competition that never seems to abate. Increasing prices to the point of pricing families out. The necessity to travel everywhere to stay relevant. The entire social media side with the latest twitters this week and deplorable people on tumblr, the Susie moms that reproduce like gremlins eating potato chips after midnight. The kids whose focus isn't on their team but on becoming cheer famous (which, let's face it, means nothing outside of our cheer world). Let's not discuss the entire uniform thread for this season...

It just seems to have spun out of control with no sign of coming back into balance.

It's completely jaded me and I used to love this sport. Our family is entering it's "senior year" next year (as it's cp16's final year) which will be our last and where (only last year) I was horribly upset that it was coming to an end. I can't say I feel that way now, barely a year later. I have a lot of mixed feelings about it, but I won't miss any of the stuff I just listed...or what it's likely to grow into.

I WILL miss the people that have come to be important in our lives. For having met some amazing families, coaches and cheerleaders that are people we never would've met otherwise...that's the part that's made it all worthwhile.

 

[cheerKT]

I know we talk about sandbagging as taking kids from higher teams and using them on lower teams, or dropping higher teams completely to a lower level, but how about gyms that just keep their kids on a youth 2 for example for 2, 3, 4 years in a row without ever advancing the entire team to the next level even though they all may have level 3 or even solid level 4 skills? Wouldn't that be considered sandbagging as well, especially if that same group of youth 2 kids win every or almost every competition season after season? Or are we at a point in cheer where this is just considered strategic and winning in this manner is commendable?

This was the basic definition of sandbagging when I cheered. Also, dropping teams an entire level for big competitions. For example, there was a small gym across town from us where many of my teammates started out. We only really saw them at Cheersport. We were small senior 3 and they were small senior 4, except for Cheersport, where they completely updated their routine and entered small senior 3. (Only to get like, 12th place anyway.) Then right after that weekend, they were back to their old routine at smaller competitions as senior 4.

Also, that same season at Cheersport my team took 4th. ALL three teams that took first, second and third had all sandbagged for the weekend. We could tell in a number of ways. The most obvious being looking at their website and seeing them listed as senior 4, or reading up on the schedules/results from their previous competitions. You could also tell in their routine, i.e. a random "set", full squad standing hand springs (obviously changed from a tuck) or an extended one leg stunt to a straight cradle, changed from a full down. (most level 3's would reload to something else or have a different creative dismount). This was my first experience in sandbagging and it still frustrates me to this day.

So sandbagging is nothing new by any means. It's just taken on different forms as cheer has progressed.

And since we're on the topic, one of those sandbagging teams that one that year happened to be this C.E. gym from FL. Guess they've been at it for a while, haha

 

[Cheer Dad]

I know we talk about sandbagging as taking kids from higher teams and using them on lower teams, or dropping higher teams completely to a lower level, but how about gyms that just keep their kids on a youth 2 for example for 2, 3, 4 years in a row without ever advancing the entire team to the next level even though they all may have level 3 or even solid level 4 skills? Wouldn't that be considered sandbagging as well, especially if that same group of youth 2 kids win every or almost every competition season after season? Or are we at a point in cheer where this is just considered strategic and winning in this manner is commendable?

Maybe they practice perfection before progression I just forgot the progression park.

Hypothetical question or scenario but what if the coach or owner of that team is just not capable of instructing/coaching at a higher level?


**Less than 8 Worlds bids events remain. May the odds be forever in your favor**

 

[Cheermom1969]

Aren't one mans illegal for J2 ?

We found out that, yes, they are! It makes no sense. You have to have a bracer or be attached to someone else just to sneeze but you can do unassisted one mans. Ok...

The team pictured above had girls who were all the size of my cp (except the flyers) or even bigger. That was the first thing that made me take notice. Very unusual.

 

[Cheermom1969]

I know we talk about sandbagging as taking kids from higher teams and using them on lower teams, or dropping higher teams completely to a lower level, but how about gyms that just keep their kids on a youth 2 for example for 2, 3, 4 years in a row without ever advancing the entire team to the next level even though they all may have level 3 or even solid level 4 skills? Wouldn't that be considered sandbagging as well, especially if that same group of youth 2 kids win every or almost every competition season after season? Or are we at a point in cheer where this is just considered strategic and winning in this manner is commendable?

That's clear sandbagging, in my eyes.

 

[SheCheers]

Maybe they practice perfection before progression I just forgot the progression park.

Hypothetical question or scenario but what if the coach or owner of that team is just not capable of instructing/coaching at a higher level?


**Less than 8 Worlds bids events remain. May the odds be forever in your favor**

Then they need to send their coaches to training to gain those skills rather being complacent having multiple level 2/3 teams with over 200 athletes and struggling to have a competitive upper level team. I mean, look at T&S Tulsa location, they have just over 100 athletes, 5 total teams and an amazing small coed team. Quality coaches don't need to sandbag.

 

[THEJOEL]

We found out that, yes, they are! It makes no sense. You have to have a bracer or be attached to someone else just to sneeze but you can do unassisted one mans. Ok...

The team pictured above had girls who were all the size of my cp (except the flyers) or even bigger. That was the first thing that made me take notice. Very unusual.

My understanding is they aren't illegal as long you maintain 2 points of contact above prep. My CP's J2 team did one man's last year.
They are a great team but my only critique would be this. They didn't even seem excited when they won Cheersport this season. Geez are you so used to winning that it's no longer fun to win?

 

[FlexyTumblerMom]

Sanbagging/stacking happens in gymnastics and dance competitions as well.

In dance it's so common it's expected. Like when you compete in the teen division, you have to be prepared to go against senior dancers cause everyone, and I mean virtually everyone, puts at least some senior dancers in those groups along w/ the occasional amazing junior dancer to bring down the age. And when you are competing in junior you are going against teens, etc. The worst offenders don't even have the younger aged dancers who are bringing down the age do anything in the routine but stand on a prop doing poses while the others dance.

In gymnastics there are gyms that frequently have their atheletes under-compete levels so they can get amazing scores - like its not unlikely at all for an athlete w/ level 7 skills to be competing at a level 5 meet. Some gyms do it for multiple years too - but there are rules that prevent it long term so it doesn't get that out of hand. It's also hard to drop back a level once you've competed at a state meet at the higher level.

 

[cheermommaRN]

Honestly this is another reason I'm not crazy about going back to a big gym. Our little three team gym wins most of the small local comps they go to. They compete against other teams that may or may not have full level skills, most of the time they are just as mixed as ours are.
The frustration factor goes way down when you know you more than likely will not have to deal with this. You can actually enjoy your athletes hard work because you know there is not a Susie Sandbag All Stars waiting in the wings.
What Reb described seems to be the norm in the industry because more and more gyms feel they need to stack to win. Winning=Happy parents that stay


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[MzLyn23]

THIS.

the Susie moms that reproduce like gremlins eating potato chips after midnight.

is it totally inappropriate that I'm at work eating pringles as I read this!!! :deadhorse: Dead! lol thanks for ruining my breakfast!!! lmao!!!

 

[cheerKT]

Sanbagging/stacking happens in gymnastics and dance competitions as well.

In dance it's so common it's expected. Like when you compete in the teen division, you have to be prepared to go against senior dancers cause everyone, and I mean virtually everyone, puts at least some senior dancers in those groups along w/ the occasional amazing junior dancer to bring down the age. And when you are competing in junior you are going against teens, etc. The worst offenders don't even have the younger aged dancers who are bringing down the age do anything in the routine but stand on a prop doing poses while the others dance.

In gymnastics there are gyms that frequently have their atheletes under-compete levels so they can get amazing scores - like its not unlikely at all for an athlete w/ level 7 skills to be competing at a level 5 meet. Some gyms do it for multiple years too - but there are rules that prevent it long term so it doesn't get that out of hand. It's also hard to drop back a level once you've competed at a state meet at the higher level.

Is dance done by the average age of the collective group? That's crazy.

 

[Just-a-Mom]

Is dance done by the average age of the collective group? That's crazy.

Yes it's the average.

 

[CharlotteASMom]

It was a much different time. That couldn't happen now.

Do you say that because you don't think parents would actually do that or you don't think parents have enough "power" to do that?