All-Star Crossovers And Sandbagging

[FlexyTumblerMom]

Yes it's the average.

Yep - and believe me - people take advantage of it like you wouldn't believe!

 

[Just-a-Mom]

Yep - and believe me - people take advantage of it like you wouldn't believe!

Well I believe it. Because we do... [emoji15] [emoji15] [emoji15]

 

[crazzyeyesassypants]

Well I believe it. Because we do... [emoji15] [emoji15] [emoji15]

Is that only for studio type of dance? What about All Star dance?


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[CharlotteASMom]

Well I believe it. Because we do... [emoji15] [emoji15] [emoji15]

So for the slower ones here (me) the point is to add younger athletes to lower the average age so the team can be in a lower division? It takes me awhile! Not judging, just asking because we've never done competitive dance.

Is that like Mackenzie on Dance Moms?

 

[Just-a-Mom]

Is that only for studio type of dance? What about All Star dance?


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No idea. I think they're under usasf, right? So I guess they have rules like cheer rules (which I guess I could look up... But I'm too lazy)

I only know about studio dance, so yes - this is only studio dance.

 

[Just-a-Mom]

So for the slower ones here (me) the point is to add younger athletes to lower the average age so the team can be in a lower division? It takes me awhile! Not judging, just asking because we've never done competitive dance.

Is that like Mackenzie on Dance Moms?

Yes. I don't do placements at our studio, so I can be all [emoji15] [emoji15] [emoji15] lol - because I'm not the one doing it. We have a couple 5 and 6 year olds, and I think their main purpose is to lower the average age so we can compete lower.

We only have three 12 year olds and one 13 year old - so it sucks competing against teams with a bunch of 14 year olds. I think it's one of those things like in cheer - not against the rules, so people do it. Not sure how I feel about it - and I'm not sure if the 5 year old is helping!

 

[retiredl5cheer]

Is that only for studio type of dance? What about All Star dance?


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All star dance follows the USASF age grids. Two completely different beasts.

 

[crazzyeyesassypants]

No idea. I think they're under usasf, right? So I guess they have rules like cheer rules (which I guess I could look up... But I'm too lazy)

I only know about studio dance, so yes - this is only studio dance.

I think you are right that they follow USASF but I also know from experience that All star dance gyms don't always follow them [emoji15] my non cp used to dance but we left in the beginning of the season, I used to miss it but now that I hear all the drama from the mamas I'm so glad we stopped!! Those dance mamas have nothing on SM[emoji23][emoji15]



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[FlexyTumblerMom]

So for the slower ones here (me) the point is to add younger athletes to lower the average age so the team can be in a lower division? It takes me awhile! Not judging, just asking because we've never done competitive dance.

Is that like Mackenzie on Dance Moms?

Exactly. And yeah, Mackensie is a good example. That team on the show is all girls who would compete their solos in the 12-14 age group, but they compete their groups in 9-11 cause they have MacKensie. You usually average the ages and round down to get the age that the group competes.

 

[oncecoolcoachnowmom]

Yes. I don't do placements at our studio, so I can be all [emoji15] [emoji15] [emoji15] lol - because I'm not the one doing it. We have a couple 5 and 6 year olds, and I think their main purpose is to lower the average age so we can compete lower.

We only have three 12 year olds and one 13 year old - so it sucks competing against teams with a bunch of 14 year olds. I think it's one of those things like in cheer - not against the rules, so people do it. Not sure how I feel about it - and I'm not sure if the 5 year old is helping!

I'm not the most dance-savvy person on the planet, but does a parent really WANT their kid competing lower?

Example: Are there really parents on this planet who would be excited over their 14-year-old competing in say, a 9-11 y/o jazz trio division with say, a 3rd grader and a 5th grader?

Do I really want to know the answer?

 

[Official OWECheer]

THIS.

Disclaimer: this is general commentary about the state of the industry NOT our current (or former, honestly) gyms. Especially our current gym is doing all they can to ameliorate these things. That being said....

Sometimes I think I was just uneducated in the beginning and didn't see it, but we've been in this nine years now and the industry has changed so much. I HAVE been educated the last several years and I've seen it, and not in a good way.

Stacking and blatantly sandbagged teams at every competition at multiple divisions just for the almighty jacket (it's why I like worlds level 5, you can't sandbag it). Scoring drama at seemingly every competition that never seems to abate. Increasing prices to the point of pricing families out. The necessity to travel everywhere to stay relevant. The entire social media side with the latest twitters this week and deplorable people on tumblr, the Susie moms that reproduce like gremlins eating potato chips after midnight. The kids whose focus isn't on their team but on becoming cheer famous (which, let's face it, means nothing outside of our cheer world). Let's not discuss the entire uniform thread for this season...

It just seems to have spun out of control with no sign of coming back into balance.

It's completely jaded me and I used to love this sport. Our family is entering it's "senior year" next year (as it's cp16's final year) which will be our last and where (only last year) I was horribly upset that it was coming to an end. I can't say I feel that way now, barely a year later. I have a lot of mixed feelings about it, but I won't miss any of the stuff I just listed...or what it's likely to grow into.

I WILL miss the people that have come to be important in our lives. For having met some amazing families, coaches and cheerleaders that are people we never would've met otherwise...that's the part that's made it all worthwhile.

Sanbagging/stacking happens in gymnastics and dance competitions as well.

In dance it's so common it's expected. Like when you compete in the teen division, you have to be prepared to go against senior dancers cause everyone, and I mean virtually everyone, puts at least some senior dancers in those groups along w/ the occasional amazing junior dancer to bring down the age. And when you are competing in junior you are going against teens, etc. The worst offenders don't even have the younger aged dancers who are bringing down the age do anything in the routine but stand on a prop doing poses while the others dance.

In gymnastics there are gyms that frequently have their atheletes under-compete levels so they can get amazing scores - like its not unlikely at all for an athlete w/ level 7 skills to be competing at a level 5 meet. Some gyms do it for multiple years too - but there are rules that prevent it long term so it doesn't get that out of hand. It's also hard to drop back a level once you've competed at a state meet at the higher level.

I find that to be shocking... I thought stacking just didn't happen in gymnastics because of the obsession with perfect technique?

 

[Cheermom1969]

My understanding is they aren't illegal as long you maintain 2 points of contact above prep. My CP's J2 team did one man's last year.
They are a great team but my only critique would be this. They didn't even seem excited when they won Cheersport this season. Geez are you so used to winning that it's no longer fun to win?

They're a great team for a reason, it seems.

 

[AliciaM]

I know a gym that does this as well. They have 2 mini 1 teams one full of girls who have competed together since they were tiny age so like 6 years for most of them. The more advanced mini team has girls on it who have standing tucks and running tucks and a few who have layout. They should have in my opinion gone level 2 since almost half the team crosses over to youth 2 and one girl who crosses over to youth 2 AND junior 3.

I get wanting to keep winning 1st at comps and grand champ but it shouldn't be all about winning.

 

[luv2cheer92]

I know a gym that does this as well. They have 2 mini 1 teams one full of girls who have competed together since they were tiny age so like 6 years for most of them. The more advanced mini team has girls on it who have standing tucks and running tucks and a few who have layout. They should have in my opinion gone level 2 since almost half the team crosses over to youth 2 and one girl who crosses over to youth 2 AND junior 3.

I get wanting to keep winning 1st at comps and grand champ but it shouldn't be all about winning.

I almost have just as much of a problem with a girl being on a mini team and a junior team, not even considering the skill levels. That's a huge age difference, I'm a huge proponent for bottom age limits for all ages, though I'm sure I'm in the minority in that.

 

[AliciaM]

I almost have just as much of a problem with a girl being on a mini team and a junior team, not even considering the skill levels. That's a huge age difference, I'm a huge proponent for bottom age limits for all ages, though I'm sure I'm in the minority in that.

No, I totally agree. I thing the age grid is so messed up. A mini shouldn't be on a junior team lol the girl is very talented she technically could be on a level 5 team as I think she by now has a running full but regardless it looks funny because she's also super tiny so when she's flying on J3 it just looks weird since all the rest of the kids are more junior sized.

I also don't agree with a 10 year old being able to be on a senior team with girls who can super senior and are 19...makes no sense.