All-Star How Important Is The Title 'nationals'?

[tumbleyoda]

Some gyms go to small "nationals" events because they want to brag about the title. I think others go because "nationals" is sort of a different style of event... the production level is usually higher, there's better prizes (bigger trophies, sweatshirts, jackets, etc), and two days of competition. It's flashier and meant to be more fun. It's a selling point for EPs.

Having worked for a relatively small EP I can say that this is exactly it. So many calls I received from clients and prospective clients wanted the same production level for a much lower cost and better shot at actually winning. Some wanted the arena atmosphere, the elevated stage, the lights, the DJ, big banners, hoodies, the works. Some specifically did not want to compete against anyone but just to say they won. SMH. Thankfully the stronger programs that attended this EP's events wanted to actually compete against someone and wanted the challenge rather than an easy win. And yes smaller programs would still call to see who was competing and would either want to change divisions or pull out completely if they were competing against who they perceived was a stronger program than they were. :banghead:

 

[callmecoach]

I don't think the elimination of the word "nationals" would discourage gyms from attending events, at least not prestigious ones. The all-star world knows enough of NCA, CheerSport and the like, to know that they are legitimate with or without that title. Those events have built reputations and owners/coaches take their teams there to compete against the best of the best. But, as has been stated, EP's will never stop using the word everywhere and anywhere possible because it would take away their ability to market to smaller gyms who want the title but can't get to the bigger competitions due to travel expenses.

 

[MomOf2ThatsMe]

And yes smaller programs would still call to see who was competing and would either want to change divisions or pull out completely if they were competing against who they perceived was a stronger program than they were. :banghead:

Do EP's release that information? I just kind of figured that gyms had no idea who they were competing against unless they found out from eachother, word of mouth, or checking other programs websites to see if their schedule was posted...

 

[tumbleyoda]

Do EP's release that information? I just kind of figured that gyms had no idea who they were competing against unless they found out from eachother, word of mouth, or checking other programs websites to see if their schedule was posted...

All depends on the EP, what their policy is and who they are catering to. Some EP's I have found release it because a lot of programs want to know they will have competition before they commit to coming to their event. Others release tidbits to convince a program that they actually have a good chance of winning certain divisions if they come.

Once a schedule is posted then the phone calls happen again to move divisions, adjust for crossover issues, jostle for a better time to compete in a division, etc.

 

[mollymags]

Do EP's release that information? I just kind of figured that gyms had no idea who they were competing against unless they found out from eachother, word of mouth, or checking other programs websites to see if their schedule was posted...

I work for an EP and our policy is to not release team names until the schedule is posted. We'll let you know how many teams are in your division(s), but nothing more than that.

 

[Kel Kell]

I would like to see some structure to events, I am sick and tired of All-Stars coming into HS with "xyz national championships". If everything you go to is "nationals" that makes it less special. I think we will see a larger turn out and better competition if we just stick to one per major company, we need to stop this now before it becomes the same thing as a college football bowl game.
On an EP side I work with several events and somewhere around 75% of them do not list the teams competing until the schedule is posted.

 

[MomOf2ThatsMe]

All depends on the EP, what their policy is and who they are catering to. Some EP's I have found release it because a lot of programs want to know they will have competition before they commit to coming to their event. Others release tidbits to convince a program that they actually have a good chance of winning certain divisions if they come.

Once a schedule is posted then the phone calls happen again to move divisions, adjust for crossover issues, jostle for a better time to compete in a division, etc.

Well, we are just working against ourselves in so many ways I can't even begin to count...

 

[SharkDad]

It was related to college level, but the lack of a single organized national competition system was cited as one of the legal reason's way cheer was designated as not a sport in the 2010 Quinnipiac court case.

 

[THEJOEL]

Does being a national champion, as opposed to a champion, still cary any weight nowadays?

If NCA Allstar in Dallas Called itself the NCA Allstar Cheer Championship and crowned champions, not national champions, would that matter? As the term National Champion is so watered down do we even care anymore? If CHEERSPORT just became the CHEERSPORT Championship (everyone was banned from using the word Nationals) would anyone really care?

I ask because I realized talking to someone the other day that I never used the words 'I am an NCA National Champion'. Instead I said I won Dallas or NCA. I would say 'I won CHEERSPORT'.

Now I speak of college championships (notice I took out the word National) and there are 3 or 4. Can there really be any college national champion because the events exclude everyone who goes to another event? Doesn't a nationals require everyone to be eligible?

Disregard I accidentally bumped up an OLD thread.

 

[Abcdefg]

Technically a lot of competitions crown "national" champions because the competition allows all teams in the nation to attend the competition if they choose. therefore if anyone from the nation can attend the winners can be crowned national champions? im guessing that is their logic... honestly with this subject i have just grown to not really care anymore if someone tells me they're a national champion im just like "ehh whatever." a world champion is a different subject even though a world champion is really a national champion in most cases...

 

[Underestimated]

I think my high school kids appreciate the word "nationals" a bit more because they can use it towards their PE since their gym is a "nationally ranked gym" and they don't have to do PE in school.

 

[xpressjag]

I think winning at some of Varsitys older brands such as Nca, Uca , cheer sport and USA is pretty credible. Smaller events are large championships which are great accomplishments as we'll but should just be renamed.


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[topxofxmyxgame]

If there is so much concern regarding the use of the term "Nationals" shouldn't we be equally concerned about the use of the term "Worlds"? I totally understand the argument that is being presented regarding the many events calling itself "Nationals" because it has gotten out of hand however unfortunately I don't see that changing any time soon. The cheerleading industry is a free market that is loosely regulated and has grown tremendously over the last 20 years because of that. Cheer companies use the term "Nationals" seemingly because it's just the thing to do. It's business! My question is what makes "Worlds" so different? If we're questioning legitimacy aren't the "World Champions" in the club divisions simply a glorified National Champion? The international teams are the only ones who truly compete against teams from around the world yet everyone still gets the same title and acclaim.

The only reason there isn't more championships calling itself "Worlds" is due to known risk in taking on that challenge. Any team attending such an event would be banned for participating at "The Cheerleading Worlds" and any competition company creating such an event would also be banned no longer having there events sanctioned by the USASF which could be business suicide for them both. Currently there is no type of regulation that permits competitions from calling itself Nationals so I would assume they will continue to do so regardless of our displeasure and the lack of prestige now associated with some events.

We also need to take into consideration that some gyms attend the smaller events to give there athletes the opportunity at success. It is a known fact that both World Cup Shooting Stars and Maryland Twisters F5 attended Americheer Open Nationals (which some might consider a small competition according to todays standards) winning they before ever attending NCA which they both eventually won as well. So even the top gyms started someone where. We've gotta cut the lil guys a break and not be so elitist lol.

 

[12stepCheermom]

If there is so much concern regarding the use of the term "Nationals" shouldn't we be equally concerned about the use of the term "Worlds"? I totally understand the argument that is being presented regarding the many events calling itself "Nationals" because it has gotten out of hand however unfortunately I don't see that changing any time soon. The cheerleading industry is a free market that is loosely regulated and has grown tremendously over the last 20 years because of that. Cheer companies use the term "Nationals" seemingly because it's just the thing to do. It's business! My question is what makes "Worlds" so different? If we're questioning legitimacy aren't the "World Champions" in the club divisions simply a glorified National Champion? The international teams are the only ones who truly compete against teams from around the world yet everyone still gets the same title and acclaim.

The only reason there isn't more championships calling itself "Worlds" is due to known risk in taking on that challenge. Any team attending such an event would be banned for participating at "The Cheerleading Worlds" and any competition company creating such an event would also be banned no longer having there events sanctioned by the USASF which could be business suicide for them both. Currently there is no type of regulation that permits competitions from calling itself Nationals so I would assume they will continue to do so regardless of our displeasure and the lack of prestige now associated with some events.

We also need to take into consideration that some gyms attend the smaller events to give there athletes the opportunity at success. It is a known fact that both World Cup Shooting Stars and Maryland Twisters F5 attended Americheer Open Nationals (which some might consider a small competition according to todays standards) winning they before ever attending NCA which they both eventually won as well. So even the top gyms started someone where. We've gotta cut the lil guys a break and not be so elitist lol.

I don't have an issue with a variety of competitions offering a variety of competitive levels for the "lil" guys and large gyms alike.

What gets the eyeroll from me is when a gym holds a press conference, post 30 pictures to 12 newspapers and hires a sky writer to proclaim themselves National Champions when they competed against no one at Billy Bobs Backyard National Cheer Competition. And it really shears my sheep when they do so with the slant that they are national champs while "big gym" team down the street lost......at NCA.

Feel free to celebrate your victory, that's perfectly fine, but don't try to compare what's not comparable. That's when I get salty.


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[CheerCoach84]

I don't have an issue with a variety of competitions offering a variety of competitive levels for the "lil" guys and large gyms alike.

What gets the eyeroll from me is when a gym holds a press conference, post 30 pictures to 12 newspapers and hires a sky writer to proclaim themselves National Champions when they competed against no one at Billy Bobs Backyard National Cheer Competition. And it really shears my sheep when they do so with the slant that they are national champs while "big gym" team down the street lost......at NCA.

Feel free to celebrate your victory, that's perfectly fine, but don't try to compare what's not comparable. That's when I get salty.


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Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!! That just made me Laugh so hard!!!! It really is True and a sad state today... As stated a couple of times, "National" means different things to different folks... Some folks would rather be 5th at NCA Dallas than 1st at any number of National events that they can go to..... I am in my 30th season as a Coach, and I believe I have been Everywhere!!! Each one of those Titles means alot to the kids that were on all of those teams and I won't take that away from them, However don't showboat when someone else gets 4th place at NCA, Cheersport or UCA, etc.....And you won at hmmmmmmm All American Cheer and Dance-(I don't think they are around anymore?) It is still a Big accomplishment!!!!!:fro: