All-Star Would You Send Your Child To A Gym Where The Head Coach Had No Personal Cheer Experience?

[piglet]

While certification isn't a guarantee, I won't pay to have my athlete train under someone who isn't certified.

 

[cheer25mom]

I'm asking just because I'm curious. Is certification really that important? Is it a deal breaker? I've coached 2 years, spotted levels 1-4 tumbling (20 hours a week) as a part time job for 2.5 years, and I cheered 2 years in college, 3 in all star, and have been an NCA instructor. Never have I been certified in anything except CPR and first aid.

Yes, it's a deal breaker. We have had this convo before. Certification isn't just about paying your money, it's about learning to do something correctly and safely. Just because someone had experience doesn't mean they were taught the correct way, or that they are teaching skills correctly. I have seen it in action. "Experienced coach" who didn't have a clue how to break down and teach skills correctly and had been teaching them wrong for years. By working under credentialed coaches yo get certified, he learned to fix the errors.


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[Michael White]

Yes, it's a deal breaker. We have had this convo before. Certification isn't just about paying your money, it's about learning to do something correctly and safely. Just because someone had experience doesn't mean they were taught the correct way, or that they are teaching skills correctly. I have seen it in action. "Experienced coach" who didn't have a clue how to break down and teach skills correctly and had been teaching them wrong for years. By working under credentialed coaches yo get certified, he learned to fix the errors.


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I know, I guess I'm going to have to. Even though I do break down the skills and teach them correctly, I have to concede that a certification is necessary for some.

 

[Michael White]

While certification isn't a guarantee, I won't pay to have my athlete train under someone who isn't certified.

I respect that decision, but despite the fact that I don't have a certification, hundreds of athletes choose me over other instructors. 4 local high schools have reached out to me and I now spot tumbling for them. I'm fingerprinted (kind of like a background check) through the department of education, and I have my own personal liability insurance. I'm only saying that sometimes there's exceptions to the rule, just as there are successful professionals in other fields who never got college degrees, for example. I definitely think that certification could go a long way toward making a young instructor more effective and safe.

 

[cheer25mom]

I know, I guess I'm going to have to. Even though I do break down the skills and teach them correctly, I have to concede that a certification is necessary for some.

I think its necessary for ALL instructors in this day and age. There is too much liability in tumbling not to have proper certification. Honestly it surprises me that you can even get insurance without it. I don't think that will be the case for much longer.

 

[Michael White]

I think its necessary for ALL instructors in this day and age. There is too much liability in tumbling not to have proper certification. Honestly it surprises me that you can even get insurance without it. I don't think that will be the case for much longer.

It actually wasn't bad. I paid around $300 for a year of accident insurance that covers $25000 of medical expenses per injury. That price probably would have been higher of I hadn't had some experience, and likely would have been less had I been certified, but it was really a drop in the bucket.

 

[cheer25mom]

It actually wasn't bad. I paid around $300 for a year of accident insurance that covers $25000 of medical expenses per injury. That price probably would have been higher of I hadn't had some experience, and likely would have been less had I been certified, but it was really a drop in the bucket.

Not trying to be critical, but I feel like you need to be aware if something truly catastrophic happens to a child under your supervision, that won't even begin to cover the expenses. For a suspected head or spine injury, that might cover the ambulance ride and initial MRI, but not much more. God forbid a child truly was hurt, you are talking hundreds of thousands of dollars in treatment. You will be on the hook for the rest in the parent sues and wins, and given the fact that you don't have certification they would likely win. I would definitely be carrying more insurance.

 

[quitthedrama]

To answer the OP question, I would not necessarily rule it out, but I would want whoever is coaching my child to have a coaching background. It doesn't necessarily have to be in cheer, but actual coaching experience is a must. I think it is unrealistic for someone to both be a gym owner and a coach if they have no experience in either. Coaches with multiple years experience don't always make the best business owners. Business owners with zero coaching experience don't always make the best coaches. I would recommend getting as much experience in both, even if it means volunteering your time.

@Michael White - there are hundreds of coaches who have years of experience and could teach the USASF certification class themselves, but getting certified wasn't beneath them.

 

[quitthedrama]

Not trying to be critical, but I feel like you need to be aware if something truly catastrophic happens to a child under your supervision, that won't even begin to cover the expenses. For a suspected head or spine injury, that might cover the ambulance ride and initial MRI, but not much more. God forbid a child truly was hurt, you are talking hundreds of thousands of dollars in treatment. You will be on the hook for the rest in the parent sues and wins, and given the fact that you don't have certification they would likely win. I would definitely be carrying more insurance.

Excellent point. The gym is also putting themselves at greater financial liability by allowing an un-certified person to coach. A little piece of paper that certifies you know what you already know can be a huge benefit in the event of a lawsuit.

 

[Michael White]

Not trying to be critical, but I feel like you need to be aware if something truly catastrophic happens to a child under your supervision, that won't even begin to cover the expenses. For a suspected head or spine injury, that might cover the ambulance ride and initial MRI, but not much more. God forbid a child truly was hurt, you are talking hundreds of thousands of dollars in treatment. You will be on the hook for the rest in the parent sues and wins, and given the fact that you don't have certification they would likely win. I would definitely be carrying more insurance.

I would never let an athlete throw a skill where that was a possibility though. I know no one plans for an accident, but I'm very careful. Plus, I've never heard of an injury that severe, does it happen often? I'm sure it does, but I've never heard of it. The only time any athlete has been injured while working with me is when a girl, who has her handspring, threw a handspring and broke two bones across the back of her hand. It was a skill she's landed successfully hundreds of times. $25000 would have definitely paid for the expenses. I went with $25000 because it was suggested as a good figure by the insurance agency.

 

[Michael White]

To answer the OP question, I would not necessarily rule it out, but I would want whoever is coaching my child to have a coaching background. It doesn't necessarily have to be in cheer, but actual coaching experience is a must. I think it is unrealistic for someone to both be a gym owner and a coach if they have no experience in either. Coaches with multiple years experience don't always make the best business owners. Business owners with zero coaching experience don't always make the best coaches. I would recommend getting as much experience in both, even if it means volunteering your time.

@Michael White - there are hundreds of coaches who have years of experience and could teach the USASF certification class themselves, but getting certified wasn't beneath them.

It might have been if they had to drive 400 miles and pay over a thousand dollars out of pocket! Which is ~~ 1/10 of the entire income I made last year spotting tumbling/coaching. I'm sure some have paid that expense, but unless I start work with a gym where it is a must, I don't think I will. That's my choice, and I will have to deal with potential consequences if they arise. I also would probably be more open to it if I planned to make this my lifelong profession, but I have just accepted a Mechanical Design position with a large shipbuilding company, so that looks less likely. I've also said before that certification in the state of Maine as far as I know is something that isn't usually done, but I don't know the ins and outs of the gyms in the southern part of the state.

 

[catlady]

Your vote casting question the way it is worded, "yes" I would send my kid to a gym where the owner had no cheer experience. Owners only have to be smart business people and hire experienced people. In your opening post, however, you asked if we would send them to a gym that is "run and coached" by a person with no cheer experience, two very different questions, and "no" I would not allow my kids to be coached by someone with no cheer experience. However, "maybe if" the owner has a gymnastics or dance background and has a co-coach with cheer experience. How is that for a definitive answer?

 

[cheer25mom]

I would never let an athlete throw a skill where that was a possibility though. I know no one plans for an accident, but I'm very careful. Plus, I've never heard of an injury that severe, does it happen often? I'm sure it does, but I've never heard of it. The only time any athlete has been injured while working with me is when a girl, who has her handspring, threw a handspring and broke two bones across the back of her hand. It was a skill she's landed successfully hundreds of times. $25000 would have definitely paid for the expenses. I went with $25000 because it was suggested as a good figure by the insurance agency.

Its ALWAYS a possibility, even for and experienced tumbler. A girl with a full can slip in a handspring and end up with a broken arm requiring surgery or a head injury. Your insurance isn't adequate to cover either. Any coach with experience under their belt knows they simply cannot say "I won't let it happen" because this is a high risk sport. Sometimes you do everything right and it still happens. You have been lucky thus far, but at some point that luck will likely run out. Also, erring on the side of condition means you send anyone with a suspected back, neck, or head injury to the hospital in an ambulance, and they get an MRI Even if they turn out not to be injured, the gym is often on the hook for the treatment.

ETA: No it doesn't happen often, but it only takes once to ruin you financially.

 

[FamousxMindset]

Deja Vu ... anyone else?

 

[Michael White]

Its ALWAYS a possibility, even for and experienced tumbler. A girl with a full can slip in a handspring and end up with a broken arm requiring surgery or a head injury. Your insurance isn't adequate to cover either. Any coach with experience under their belt knows they simply cannot say "I won't let it happen" because this is a high risk sport. Sometimes you do everything right and it still happens. You have been lucky thus far, but at some point that luck will likely run out. Also, erring on the side of condition means you send anyone with a suspected back, neck, or head injury to the hospital in an ambulance, and they get an MRI Even if they turn out not to be injured, the gym is often on the hook for the treatment.

ETA: No it doesn't happen often, but it only takes once to ruin you financially.

I don't pretend to be an expert, at all. I am aware of the risk. I'm just trying to become more educated to many people's opinions on the matter. Obviously if you ask "would you rather have someone who is certified or not certified?" the clear answer is cerified, but I do want to coach down the road at some point. If certification is the only way, then I guess I'll have to do it, because it seems pretty clear there's no room in the industry for anyone who isn't. If my athletes are happy, but I've been putting them at risk, maybe I should get certified.

PS, I do only spot up to level 4 skills, and I agree that the jump from 4-5 adds an extremely higher risk of catastrophic injury.