All-Star Your Definition Of A World's Caliber Team

[east2westandbackagain]

i personally think worlds should go back to Winners of Major events like it was back in 2005. That is the true Worlds Caliber!

 

[Flyer mom]

I was out of town this week on vacation, but a prime example of a team exploiting the kids of their gym just to say they went to worlds happened in Illinois. A team who finished in 11th out of 12 at GLCC in Detroit, the owner wrote an article to the local newspaper saying how his program made it to the world series of cheer after only being together for 4 weeks. He went on to say that they beat gyms that have been practicing for over 6 to 9 months. He did not say he received the bid even though his team finished in last the week before, and second to last at this competition to receive this bid, but earned it by beating other top teams. Then he put business phone number and company website saying how you can try out. This was shown to me because I do not live in same suburb area as this person, but this is what handing out bids that are not earned does. It gives owners who use their kids to promote their gym a chance to fabricate stories to get more people in their gym, which is wrong. I feel this is a slap in the face to all the girls who work extremely hard all year to perfect their routines, to get on stage at national events and earn their bids by winning or placing very high to get bid, not because their is no one else to give it to.

 

[Just-a-Mom]

I was out of town this week on vacation, but a prime example of a team exploiting the kids of their gym just to say they went to worlds happened in Illinois. A team who finished in 11th out of 12 at GLCC in Detroit, the owner wrote an article to the local newspaper saying how his program made it to the world series of cheer after only being together for 4 weeks. He went on to say that they beat gyms that have been practicing for over 6 to 9 months. He did not say he received the bid even though his team finished in last the week before, and second to last at this competition to receive this bid, but earned it by beating other top teams. Then he put business phone number and company website saying how you can try out. This was shown to me because I do not live in same suburb area as this person, but this is what handing out bids that are not earned does. It gives owners who use their kids to promote their gym a chance to fabricate stories to get more people in their gym, which is wrong. I feel this is a slap in the face to all the girls who work extremely hard all year to perfect their routines, to get on stage at national events and earn their bids by winning or placing very high to get bid, not because their is no one else to give it to.

I'm not really sure why you didn't just put the name of the gym since you gave enough info that everyone knows who your blasting on a public forum anyway...

So basically the owner did what anyone would do--used a bid to Worlds as a marketing tool. They all do that. And why on Earth would someone say in a newspaper article that he got 11th out of 12th and still got a bid? And how is his story fabricated? Did he say "OMG...we got first place out of 12 teams???" Nope. He said we got a bid to Worlds. Furthermore you say he said they beat teams that have been together for 6 to 9 months. Pull up the SCORES. They did beat teams that have been together all year. Since the bids are handed out to ALL the Level 5 teams based on score...if you look at the scores for all the Level 5 teams, they did beat plenty of them.

So I'm not really sure why this bothers you so much. Nothing was "fabricated". No one was "used". I'm pretty sure if you saw an article about any other local gym they'd point out their accomplishments as well--i don't consider this "using" or "exploiting" the kids. I consider it standard practice in marketing. Any gym--for any sport for that matter- would do this.

I am very familiar with the program you're referring to. They are anything but what you are describing. They are a small gym that's been around for awhile. They are extremely nice and really care about the kids in their program. So what if they are trying to grow their business. The Illinois cheer business is extreeeeeeemely competitive--and I don't mean at competition. There are roughly 28734681764781236478 gyms in the Chicagoland area. So if someone wants to stay in business, they have to be able to compete with the businesses around them. Getting a bid to Worlds helps you compete in a very competitive area.

 

[cheererinIL]

Ohhhh @Flyer mom.. Will you be at Worlds this year? We would be fast friends, lol.

Also, the mentioned gym competed with a team under the same name all year- which is a little deceiving since they stated the team had only been together 4 weeks.

I'm glad there will be a preliminary round at Worlds this year in the larger divisions. I think it'll really be an interesting element to the competition this year.

 

[Flyer mom]

Ohhhh @Flyer mom.. Will you be at Worlds this year? We would be fast friends, lol.

No wont be there this year but for sure next year!!!

 

[WayTooCheerful]

I think that what happens as it gets closer to Worlds, the bids are being handed out wrong. There are teams who go to competitions and compete against teams in their division where the majority or even all of the teams in that division already have bids to Worlds. So what happens is that they get 11th place and they get a bid to Worlds. How can that be a justifiable bid? There has to be a better way of handing out bids, rather than sending teams to Worlds who got last place in their division. What kind of message are we sending? That if you are willing to spend enough money to chase the bid you will get one? Is there some other way to hand out bids- maybe that they have to score a certain percentage of points or something which weeds out the teams that receive these bids by 'default'. **Please note: I did put the world default in quotes to indicate that I'm not implying that I am using the true meaning of default, just trying to get my point across. Now one way thatI feel that USASF is working to weed through these teams is to have them compete twice on Saturday at Worlds, but these teams have to spend all that money to get to Worlds, just to be knocked out on Saturday showing that they really couldn't compete with "THE BIG GUYS". Sorry for running on with this...

One of my favorite movies is On Any Given Sunday. If you go through the bids offered/awarded lists and then look at those competition sites, you will see the "pool of talent" that was present. Is it wrong to get a full paid bid mid way Nov. when most teams have not started their season yet? If an EP elects to offer paid bids during regionals season hooray for the team that gets one. By the same token if a team is willing to "chase" a bid paid or otherwise up to the weekend prior to the cutoff date...hooray for them too. They do so with the belief that on ANY given Sunday they can/will be victorious!

 

[kristenthegreat]

One of my favorite movies is On Any Given Sunday. If you go through the bids offered/awarded lists and then look at those competition sites, you will see the "pool of talent" that was present. Is it wrong to get a full paid bid mid way Nov. when most teams have not started their season yet? If an EP elects to offer paid bids during regionals season hooray for the team that gets one. By the same token if a team is willing to "chase" a bid paid or otherwise up to the weekend prior to the cutoff date...hooray for them too. They do so with the belief that on ANY given Sunday they can/will be victorious!

This is something I think people forget..when people get paid bids in nov/dec, people don't even bother to consider the depth of talent or how far skills have developed at the time. Is it any more 'prestigious' to get a bid early when you've competed against little to nobody and skills aren't at full max, or at the end when you've got teams already with bids and you're not at the top of the pack? Is either REALLY 'better' than the other?

 

[MissCongeniality]

I think the problem that people have with them basically just throwing bids at teams at some competitions is that it tarnishes what people want the others to see Worlds as. Worlds is suppose to be seen as the best of the best, but what if someone from the outside watches worlds and sees on of those teams that barely made it. In their mind it could be that worlds now looks like a big joke. I do see the other side of it as well. If a team works their butt off to get there and they have no problem with taking 25th place out of 60 teams then more power to them.

Now the only problem that I myself have are the teams that place 5th or 6th in their division and because everyone else has a bid they give that bid to that team. In my opinion you should have to place in the top 3 of your division in order to receive a bid unless teams in all the divisions (top 3) already have bids already.

Take the Olympics as an example, those countries (9 times out of 10) are sending their best athletes in order to take a gold medal. You don't see the USA gymnastics team or swim team taking an athlete that doesn't really have the skill but wants the experience. If people want cheer to one day be respected like the Olympics then it needs to really be the best of the best going to worlds.

See I actually disagree with the Olympics analogy because many smaller countries (again remember USA is a powerhouse akin to a CEA or World Cup in the cheer world) send athletes who they know have NO chance of winning. Of course we don't see those performances on tv, but trust me they are there. Take a look at the swim entries at the Olympics. Here is a link http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/olympics_2004/swimming/results/3535048.stm (Scroll down to the "heats" portion) When all was said and done the GOLD went to Gary Hall who swam a 21.93 but this gentleman is an Olympian from his country (Malawi--- a small land locked country in Africa where they probably have little to no training facilities like the USA) and did his best Yona Walesi (Maw) Time:34.11

That said, I do agree that the bid system for Worlds as it is currently set up is flawed but not just because teams who stand no chance can find a way to get a bid. There are other flaws as well including accountability (favoritism) and higher proportion of bid competitions available in certain areas of the country (in my opinion)

 

[Just-a-Mom]

See I actually disagree with the Olympics analogy because many smaller countries (again remember USA is a powerhouse akin to a CEA or World Cup in the cheer world) send athletes who they know have NO chance of winning. Of course we don't see those performances on tv, but trust me they are there. Take a look at the swim entries at the Olympics. Here is a link http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/olympics_2004/swimming/results/3535048.stm (Scroll down to the "heats" portion) When all was said and done the GOLD went to Gary Hall who swam a 21.93 but this gentleman is an Olympian from his country (Malawi--- a small land locked country in Africa where they probably have little to no training facilities like the USA) and did his best Yona Walesi (Maw) Time:34.11

That said, I do agree that the bid system for Worlds as it is currently set up is flawed but not just because teams who stand no chance can find a way to get a bid. There are other flaws as well including accountability (favoritism) and higher proportion of bid competitions available in certain areas of the country (in my opinion)

This is what I was trying to say earlier when I referred to the Jamaican bobsled team (I think your example is better). LOTS of countries send teams that have no chance of winning but are just happy to be there. So I agree--the Olympics analogy doesn't really work for me. If Worlds is supposed to be like the Olympics then it actually makes sense for there to be teams that aren't going to win.

 

[AllHeartxo3]

Anyone should be able to go if they have the skills for it. Sure, we'd all rather see a team that is practically perfect in every aspect of the routine to a team that is not, but if you go back and look at the teams who got 20th or some low placing, they are REALLY good. They might have had their shaky parts that gave them that placing, but think about all the teams that aren't in worlds compared to the ones that are. Getting there and giving it all you got is winning in itself. Winning and getting the rings is just an extra bonus.

 

[ztaprincess]

They send teams that have no chance at winning but my bet is those athletes on that team are still some of the best if not the best in their country. I am sure they didn't just say "well guys lets just get some guys at the local pool and form a team" they may not be up to par with the other countries, but those athletes are the best from that country.

Clearly there are going to be teams that aren't going to win at worlds since there is only 1 winner in each division. I do not think the problem is with giving out at large bids, I personally think there should most definitely be at-large bids, but when is enough enough when it comes to passing them down to a team that came in 11th out of 12 at a competition?

I also have been wondering this, but for those teams that get an at-large bid so late in the season do they just have to pull this money out of their butt or have they been saving all season? I mean with the economy the way it is right now most can't just pull that money out of nowhere. If they have been saving it all season then when they don't get a bid it is like saying, well all those months of having to budget things down to the dollar were a waste.

 

[The Sixth]

The answer is clear cut: money. Cheer gyms are a great thing for kids. I think it is a great sport that can help children mentally and physically. Cheer gyms are also created to make money. I will ask a few more questions.
1. Besides NCA, Cheersport, and Jamfest. (that is not a diss on any other company, but it seems those nationals bring in the huge numbers) would the smaller companies exist without offering bids? Prime example, look at the numbers for Battle Under the Big Top vs their other non bid awarding comps.
2. Would the amount for paid bids be the same if at-larges did not attend?
3. Like I mentioned before, if we REALLY wanted to be honest with ourselves there would realistically be 10-15 teams in each division. So we are looking at maybe 70 teams. Admission cost would most definately boost up if that were the case.

Keep in mind level 5 is just a subset obviously. So in answer to the 1st comment, of course small companies would still exist. Even at level 5, I see plenty of teams that look genuinely excited to win their division when a bid is not involved. I think NCA, Cheersport, Jamfest, draw huge numbers because of the prestige irregardless of Worlds early on. And it becomes a snowball effect over the years.

2 is hard to answer. It's hard to say who really goes into each competition thinking either we really want a paid bid, or we're really just shooting for an at large. But for the latter, gyms set their schedule at the start of the season anyway. So you can never plan for who may or may not attend said events, or have bids already.

3 is more an issue with the industry itself with the numerous EPs. I don't know if Varsity at least attempts to coordinate all their diff companies schedules. But on any given weekend, within the same driving distance, you can find multiple events happening. It sounds bad, but they need to find a way to cut these events down and encourage larger numbers at fewer events until cheer is big enough to support the many that go on now; and kinda say tough, you want to compete you have to travel. I know it sounds like a hard lined approach, and it's not to slight the families who want to be involved, but that's the reality of it. It's still a relatively small sport.

Sorry, this is a whole other topic. It is a bit of a catch 22, and the industry needs to find a balance. I understand companies, gyms, etc, need to be profitable to even make this industry viable. But at the same time, they need to not just focus on money, and focus strictly on the industry itself. How can we make this more in line with mainstream sports? Usually that comes from concrete standardization, and guidelines.

 

[Mo-Lissa]

They do so with the belief that on ANY given Sunday they can/will be victorious!

Love it, Love it, Love it!!! We got an "at large bid" at Spirit of Hope. We did so in mid January......we had several team in our division, and many other level 5 teams in search of bids at the competition. I am exciting the judges thought we were good enough to go to Worlds. Will we win???? I hope it is our Sunday!!! Are we worthy???? The judges thought we were!!!

 

[newcheerdad]

They might have had their shaky parts that gave them that placing, but think about all the teams that aren't in worlds compared to the ones that are.

So here's an interesting question.

Right now, I think I counted something like 70 teams that have bids - either paid or at-large - to Worlds in small senior 5. How many programs have competed small senior 5 teams this year? 100? 150? 200? I wonder what the breakdown would be for other divisions.

I honestly do not know the answer, just curious as to what the ratio is.

 

[Mo-Lissa]

If you look at it that way roughly 1.4 teams per state......I think every state could produce a level 5 team. Don't you?