High School Experiment

[OldskoolKYcheercoach]

THE PROBLEM: Cheerleaders who are divas and believe they are entitled to their position/role on the team.

THE ROOT CAUSE OF THE PROBLEM: Cheerleaders know that they can do whatever they want and not be easily replaced. Even in the case of a team with multiple alternates, we all know the alternates are a last resort in the case of injury, illness, or a cheerleader having a picture taken in a compromising position in uniform.

THE PROPOSED SOLUTION: Treating alternates as "substitutes" a la football or basketball

DETAILS: Currently we have two cheer teams within our program, but it's too much. We have already been batting around ideas for a drastic reduction at tryouts in April. My suggestion is now going to be that we take 24-28 members, separate them evenly into two game teams, and combine members from those two game teams into one competition team. There will be multiple alternates, but rather than use them as a last resort, I want to use them ALL THE TIME. So, if we are at a game and people are talking on chant line and not paying attention to the task at hand, I can (at the next timeout or end of quarter) put these two substitutes in in their place. Likewise, if someone is not jumping full out at practice, they are rapidly replaced by someone who will be given an opportunity to take their place.

Thoughts?

 

[Batarangkisses]

As a coach: I think this is a fantastic idea!!
As an athlete: I would be terrified, but in a good way. As long as it doesn't become too discouraging, like someone trying their best but you not noticing and switching them. They could become discouraged from ever really trying again because they will just get replaced anyways

 

[OldskoolKYcheercoach]

As a coach: I think this is a fantastic idea!!
As an athlete: I would be terrified, but in a good way. As long as it doesn't become too discouraging, like someone trying their best but you not noticing and switching them. They could become discouraged from ever really trying again because they will just get replaced anyways

No, one does not get removed for effort.

Example:

I tell you I expect stunting, tumbling, jumps, etc during starting lineup and...

you stand there and clap and wave = removed.

you attempt a tumbling skill and fall = it happens

You prep for a jump three times and each time notice someone walks in your vicinity = it happens

Your group attempts a stunt and it falls = it happens; the rest of your groups tries to get back in it and you shake your head no = removed

 

[Batarangkisses]

No, one does not get removed for effort.

Example:

I tell you I expect stunting, tumbling, jumps, etc during starting lineup and...

you stand there and clap and wave = removed.

you attempt a tumbling skill and fall = it happens

You prep for a jump three times and each time notice someone walks in your vicinity = it happens

Your group attempts a stunt and it falls = it happens; the rest of your groups tries to get back in it and you shake your head no = removed

I totally get where youre coming from, I just also coach a senior level 1 team, and sometimes their idea of effort and our idea of effort is very different.

 

[OldskoolKYcheercoach]

I totally get where youre coming from, I just also coach a senior level 1 team, and sometimes their idea of effort and our idea of effort is very different.

Then they need to be taught and come around to our idea of the definition of effort. Very specific reasons given for every "lineup" change. Great basketball coaches know never to remove an athlete from a game immediately after a turnover, missed shot, or broken play. They know to remove an athlete after lapses in judgement (technical fouls), poor body language (questioning an official, coach, or teammate), or lack of effort (standing an watching as an opponent outhustles them for a 50/50 ball). They put the substitute in and either the head coach or an assistant immediately empties the chair next to him, takes the kid who just left the game, and explains what he has to do differently next time in order to not lose his spot.

I have already begun tracking "statistics" for my cheerleaders: the number of sideline chants started, tumbling skills performed at games, jumps performed at games, etc. I am posting these and intend to use them for end-of-the-year awards.

I can see in all stars without the game atmosphere where this might not work, but I'm specifically talking about school cheer.

An example from the competitive side:

I give a instructions for a change in counts while running routine. Four out of five groups correctly make the adjustment. One person is talking while I give the instructions, and their group misses the stunt. I replace that person with a substitute. I make them stand next to me, as I give the instructions again, and I set the team going. I then explain to them the rationale behind their removal. If they own up to the fact that they weren't paying attention, I thank for their honesty, send them for water, and replace them in their position almost immediately. If they deny it, and/or continue to debate the issue, they are out for longer.

I see this as a great way to keep "alternates" involved and paying attention to what's going on in practice as well.

 

[AScheer]

THE PROBLEM: Cheerleaders who are divas and believe they are entitled to their position/role on the team.

THE ROOT CAUSE OF THE PROBLEM: Cheerleaders know that they can do whatever they want and not be easily replaced. Even in the case of a team with multiple alternates, we all know the alternates are a last resort in the case of injury, illness, or a cheerleader having a picture taken in a compromising position in uniform.

THE PROPOSED SOLUTION: Treating alternates as "substitutes" a la football or basketball

DETAILS: Currently we have two cheer teams within our program, but it's too much. We have already been batting around ideas for a drastic reduction at tryouts in April. My suggestion is now going to be that we take 24-28 members, separate them evenly into two game teams, and combine members from those two game teams into one competition team. There will be multiple alternates, but rather than use them as a last resort, I want to use them ALL THE TIME. So, if we are at a game and people are talking on chant line and not paying attention to the task at hand, I can (at the next timeout or end of quarter) put these two substitutes in in their place. Likewise, if someone is not jumping full out at practice, they are rapidly replaced by someone who will be given an opportunity to take their place.

Thoughts?

I guess I'm not understanding what your current alternates do? What you're proposing sounds very similar to the way we run our program.

We choose the varsity team at tryouts. At this point they are all equal - no alternates, but we coaches have an idea of who the alternates will be. Most years some or all of our girls change before it's ever even announced. I use those first few months to set stunt groups and move people around. We take 4-5 alternates so that they can form a stunt group. I've found that if there are not enough girls for a full group or too many for a group, then there is extra drama in the year from girls feeling left out/unwanted/not needed. We don't announce alternates until after camp, right before going into choreo. The team operates as a whole for everything except basketball. Basketball season they are split in half by stunt groups so that we can have half the team at the game and the other half practicing. We only cheer bball games as a whole squad for rival games, coming home, or important tournaments. Our alternates do everything except take the floor at competitions. They cheer all games. They practice full out every practice. They do all pep rallies. They have a spot in the comp routine, that isn't noticeable if they're taken out or put in. When we do our routine at games or exhibitions, they are on the floor. We even have them warm-up in the competition warm-up room, so they're ready just in case. The ONLY thing they don't do is take the competition floor. I found after my first year that if they weren't conditioned and used to running the routines, they were worthless when the time came to need to put them in. This has changed the mentality of the team SOO much! The kids know there is someone ready, willing and able to take their spot at any time. Last year we took out a lazy returner flyer 3 days before nationals and put in one of our new girls. The alternate had been doing the routine all year, so she was ready to jump in. She only had to learn her new spots and reverse her dance motions.

JV doesn't compete, therefore doesn't have alternates. JV kids can be alternates if varsity needs to pull up for some reason. This isn't common but has happened.

 

[tojofasho]

I love this. I want someone to remind me of it when the new year starts so I can use it - my girls give minimal effort all the time.

 

[OldskoolKYcheercoach]

I guess I'm not understanding what your current alternates do? What you're proposing sounds very similar to the way we run our program.

We choose the varsity team at tryouts. At this point they are all equal - no alternates, but we coaches have an idea of who the alternates will be. Most years some or all of our girls change before it's ever even announced. I use those first few months to set stunt groups and move people around. We take 4-5 alternates so that they can form a stunt group. I've found that if there are not enough girls for a full group or too many for a group, then there is extra drama in the year from girls feeling left out/unwanted/not needed. We don't announce alternates until after camp, right before going into choreo. The team operates as a whole for everything except basketball. Basketball season they are split in half by stunt groups so that we can have half the team at the game and the other half practicing. We only cheer bball games as a whole squad for rival games, coming home, or important tournaments. Our alternates do everything except take the floor at competitions. They cheer all games. They practice full out every practice. They do all pep rallies. They have a spot in the comp routine, that isn't noticeable if they're taken out or put in. When we do our routine at games or exhibitions, they are on the floor. We even have them warm-up in the competition warm-up room, so they're ready just in case. The ONLY thing they don't do is take the competition floor. I found after my first year that if they weren't conditioned and used to running the routines, they were worthless when the time came to need to put them in. This has changed the mentality of the team SOO much! The kids know there is someone ready, willing and able to take their spot at any time. Last year we took out a lazy returner flyer 3 days before nationals and put in one of our new girls. The alternate had been doing the routine all year, so she was ready to jump in. She only had to learn her new spots and reverse her dance motions.

JV doesn't compete, therefore doesn't have alternates. JV kids can be alternates if varsity needs to pull up for some reason. This isn't common but has happened.

Well, just from our conversations alone, you know how I feel about conditioning as a punishment. So I've been trying to come up with alternative methods. For a kid who truly cares, I feel the biggest consequence would be removing them from the action. So I am talking about running our games and our practices more like a basketball team would. You goof off, you sit down and watch while someone else is in your spot.

 

[retiredl5cheer]

Sounds like a good idea in theory, but also sounds like way too much effort. I feel like there has to be a way to achieve the same results without quite as much work on your end.

 

[OldskoolKYcheercoach]

Sounds like a good idea in theory, but also sounds like way too much effort. I feel like there has to be a way to achieve the same results without quite as much work on your end.

How much effort does it take to tell someone to sit down?

 

[retiredl5cheer]

How much effort does it take to tell someone to sit down?

It's not just the sitting down, it's taking the time to truly communicate what someone needs to improve on every time they sit down. I know you're thorough, so you're not going to give them a 1 sentence explanation if you sit them, right? If you're truly doing it like a basketball team would, you're switching people in and out every few minutes, which means that every few minutes you're having an individual conversation with someone about what they're doing wrong, while also trying to pay attention to what your team is doing at that time. If you have several assistant coaches, then it's probably more realistic, at least in my mind. Hey, I'm not saying it's a bad idea, I'm just picturing it being a lot of additional effort on top of the diligence that coaching already requires.

 

[AScheer]

Well, just from our conversations alone, you know how I feel about conditioning as a punishment. So I've been trying to come up with alternative methods. For a kid who truly cares, I feel the biggest consequence would be removing them from the action. So I am talking about running our games and our practices more like a basketball team would. You goof off, you sit down and watch while someone else is in your spot.

Sorry I didn't elaborate. I was referring to conditioning as them being physically able to do what is needed. Basically in routine shape. Not conditioning as in exercise for doing something wrong. Our first group of alternates didn't have official spots in the routine. So they essentially worked on stuff all season but didn't run routines like the rest of the team. During full outs they spotted, watched, or worked stunts and tumbling on the side on an empty panel. When the need to put them in came, they physically couldn't do it. Even though they worked out with us during practice, they didn't run full outs and their bodies weren't conditioned for it. Now they are doing everything all the time, never to the side watching or working on something else.

I have a few things for game behavior / expectations that work for us. First being that we don't have captains. Drama always came from captains, as did a sense of entitlement. I feel like I've mentioned on the boards before, but each week I assign 2 girls to be the game captains. They're the ones that have excelled in some area that week, or gone above and beyond. I'm not the "everyone gets a turn to be captain" type of coach, so you have to earn it. I also don't believe in seniority, so just because you've been on the team for years, does not equal better chance at game captain. Since I started doing that, girls will approach to ask how they can work towards getting to be game captain. Some girls get it multiple times in the season, others never do. I also switch up chant lines. We usually have 3 lines. Front line is the girls that went above and beyond at the previous game or during practices that week. Middle line is the ones who did just as expected and back row are the ones that haven't been putting in the effort or attitutde I expect. It's kind of like that system in kindergarten with green light, yellow light, red light to let the kid and parents know their behavior. The girls get upset when they're in the third row, and usually start improving instantly. The parents usually start riding them too when they see their daughter back there. We've been doing it so long now that even the student section knows our row system, so its an added form of peer pressure that their friends will ask them why they got put in the back. Since the lines switch every game, I make sure I don't put them next to girls they would be prone to talk to. If they are talking or not performing as expected, they get moved. If they still are talking / not trying, they get sat next to me for the quarter.

As for practice it's a much more simple approach. You do it right the first time, or you do it again 5 times.

 

[retiredl5cheer]

Sorry I didn't elaborate. I was referring to conditioning as them being physically able to do what is needed. Basically in routine shape. Not conditioning as in exercise for doing something wrong. Our first group of alternates didn't have official spots in the routine. So they essentially worked on stuff all season but didn't run routines like the rest of the team. During full outs they spotted, watched, or worked stunts and tumbling on the side on an empty panel. When the need to put them in came, they physically couldn't do it. Even though they worked out with us during practice, they didn't run full outs and their bodies weren't conditioned for it. Now they are doing everything all the time, never to the side watching or working on something else.

I have a few things for game behavior / expectations that work for us. First being that we don't have captains. Drama always came from captains, as did a sense of entitlement. I feel like I've mentioned on the boards before, but each week I assign 2 girls to be the game captains. They're the ones that have excelled in some area that week, or gone above and beyond. I'm not the "everyone gets a turn to be captain" type of coach, so you have to earn it. I also don't believe in seniority, so just because you've been on the team for years, does not equal better chance at game captain. Since I started doing that, girls will approach to ask how they can work towards getting to be game captain. Some girls get it multiple times in the season, others never do. I also switch up chant lines. We usually have 3 lines. Front line is the girls that went above and beyond at the previous game or during practices that week. Middle line is the ones who did just as expected and back row are the ones that haven't been putting in the effort or attitutde I expect. It's kind of like that system in kindergarten with green light, yellow light, red light to let the kid and parents know their behavior. The girls get upset when they're in the third row, and usually start improving instantly. The parents usually start riding them too when they see their daughter back there. We've been doing it so long now that even the student section knows our row system, so its an added form of peer pressure that their friends will ask them why they got put in the back. Since the lines switch every game, I make sure I don't put them next to girls they would be prone to talk to. If they are talking or not performing as expected, they get moved. If they still are talking / not trying, they get sat next to me for the quarter.

As for practice it's a much more simple approach. You do it right the first time, or you do it again 5 times.

I really, really like this approach. Kudos.

 

[tojofasho]

I really, really like this approach. Kudos.

Agreed. I've always done chant lines based on seniority - the idea of switching them up based on effort (not talent) is something I really think would help motivate the girls.

 

[cheerisloving]

Agreed. I've always done chant lines based on seniority - the idea of switching them up based on effort (not talent) is something I really think would help motivate the girls.

It works. Girls know when they aren't the best. I actually hated when we would do lines based on seniority because knew I was better than some of them. Same for routine formations. For years the previous coach would give seniors the front line because 'it's their senior year' but they were being outperformed by the girls in the back.

It's a hard habit to break for sure. Some girls who aren't the most talented, wait till senior year to finally feel like they're the 'top dog.' It's a way for them to feel validated---yeah I might not have my two to tuck BUT I'm a senior, I'm captain so what I say go. Bless her heart-my friend was the weakest talent wise of our grade and yet she was the most brutal when she became captain.

It's something I would slowly implement. My coach had to wait till some of the more power tripped girls had been weaned out until she could successfully start to awarding to talent v. seniority.