All-Star Amazing Level 2 Teams?

[cheerstalker2]

Does one of your gyms have a small junior 2?

Yes we do have a junior 2 team at one of our other gyms, however I think it is a large Jr 2.

 

[quitthedrama]

Although crossovers is a huge problem that needs to be resolved, what Rockstars and Sparks (and perhaps a handful of other gyms that have yet to be called out) are doing in this particular instance is specifically circumventing a rule that NCA put in place to help protect true level teams competing at their competition. These gyms have created a team for the sole purpose of competing at NCA, but both are competing at a lower level than the majority of their athletes are currently competing on year-round, and these teams have only competed the mandatory one time that NCA required. Both gyms are using the reasoning of travel costs for creating an entirely new team, but as so many posters have noticed, both newly created teams are at least a level lower than several of the teams the athletes are currently compteting on year-round. It certainly appears to be violating the sandbagging policy and shows the utmost disrespect to NCA.

 

[DJ]

I think California All Stars Camarillo's Junior Black (Small Junior 2) is the TEA!
They won Dallas last year too.

 

[TheUltimateFan]

For the record again I'll state the facts...We have Level 2, 3 & 4 kids on that team.....They are so excited about going to Dallas and experiencing NCA like our Chili Peppers and Beatles kids...It's been such a great move for us because now the whole gym is talking about NCA. Now we have younger teams and athletes asking about NCA. We've never flown to a competition in the 5 years at Rockstar. This is our first competition EVER that we've flown to. Hopefully next year all our teams will want to compete at NCA! Oh, and I like you to Kyle lol

This was not your typical crossover situation, which is made apparent earlier in the thread. The statement was made that a special tryout was held, there are more than a handful of level 3,4 and at least one level 5 cheerleader on this team. It was also stated that this was done solely "for the experience" of NCA.

The original question was why you chose to compete Level 2 instead of somewhere more in the middle of the levels making up the team - even level 3 - if your true motivation was just "the experience". Which now has more substance since both you and Derek have stated you have regular-season athletes with level 2 skills competing on Level 4 and 5 teams. Nobody has stated anything negative about the athletes or their part in this decision. And in fact, I suppose most of us are just as sympathetic for your own level 1 and 2 athletes that competed on that team and did an amazing job, but can't be individually recognized for their achievement.

As far as the current debate goes, we moved it past pointing fingers at your team and on to a general discussion of how this could be prevented in the future. Because your decision did, in fact, impact teams of true Level 2 cheerleaders who came to Cheersport expecting a fair competition, and did not find it there. And this weekend the same situation will exist at NCA. Other posters have brought it back to be a Rockstar issue. Those of us who want to see the situation itself resolved, did not. We encourage your participation in that discussion because we can't assume we know your logic or your intentions. Your input provides value.

 

[TheUltimateFan]

I am intrigued by the registration and athlete registration conversation, but please take it to a new thread. This thread was meant for amazing level 2 teams, so that is what I am looking for when I open it.

The recent conversation is completely valid, but just not relevant to this thread anymore.

If those who coach a Level 2 or 3 team don't think this discussion is relevant, then yes, we should just drop it.

But before you make that decision, please consider how and whether what it takes to be an "amazing" level 2 team may change (and how that impacts your current Level 2 teams) now that this very legal loophole has been defined and publicized.

 

[lakerfantlc]

Sorry, you go it.

Congrats on your win - good luck in Dallas.

Isn't there some rule that you must compete as a team for X amount of time before NCA....and our Jr Black is very good and made up of real level 2 athletes...:chestbump:

 

[SarahS]

Isn't there some rule that you must compete as a team for X amount of time before NCA....and our Jr Black is very good and made up of real level 2 athletes...:chestbump:

No amount of time, just one competition.

 

[lakerfantlc]

No amount of time, just one competition.

wow..."tough rule"...rolling eyes...

 

[kristenthegreat]

If those who coach a Level 2 or 3 team don't think this discussion is relevant, then yes, we should just drop it.

But before you make that decision, please consider how and whether what it takes to be an "amazing" level 2 team may change (and how that impacts your current Level 2 teams) now that this very legal loophole has been defined and publicized.

I concur. I don't coach level 2, but since this VERY publicly affected these amazing level 2 teams I love, I say have at it! Many people skip over the more 'deep-thought' posts for the fluffy ones, and this is a way for more people to read, unfortunately.

Now I watched Rockstar's routine (sorry, I'm using you as my example. But you put it out there for better or worse. And I actually think it's both- better for this discussion to have an actual concrete example, worse for the kids affected who lost to this situation and now I have a slightly bitter taste in my mouth that isn't morning breath). I knew the situation, but even if I didn't, my first thought was 'They have REALLY great technique.' One girl had some SERIOUS speed to her BHS. If I didn't know the situation, then came on here to see that this team was made up of athletes with various higher-level skills, I'd be majorly confused and upset. I know CEA uses crossovers extensively, but from what I've always seen, it's usually the same level, just different age groups (youth 5 to junior 5, junior 5 to senior 5, etc). My problem is there was, publicly, an entire team created of athletes who comprised of 2-5 skills, all pushed together on the lowest level of all the kids chosen. Why not choose level 3? It will forever be the question people think of when they see that routine. It also effectively, in my mind, puts to rest the notion that 'Well, everybody is competing the same level skills so it's all the same.' Well- as long as there's an execution component on the score sheet, it WON'T be all the same. In terms of 'filling out' team size- didn't some team at Cheersport this weekend place very well with only 12 girls (I believe top 4?)

 

[lakerfantlc]

The sad thing is when a team so clearly does this to go to Dallas and win a jacket...it leaves a bad taste in my mouth for the whole program...I think everyone has crossover teams due to the fact that sometimes there are just not quite enough kids of a certain level to fill a whole team...but our gym leaves these teams home from Dallas....it is a hard thing to do but tough choices must be made...I feel bad for the real level 2 athletes that lose to RockstarCheer team and ones made like that legal or not..skating on the edge of the rules isn't pretty...thats the sad thing

 

[WorkToWin]

Not only will the execution be cleaner when athletes are competing a lower level, but it's much less risky. What is the chance an athlete with a layout or full is going to mess up a level 2 tumbling pass? Or what's the chance a basic extension is going to drop with level 4 bases? I know I am kind of late to the party, but it's unfair. Having level 3/4/5 athletes on a level 2 team is not a fair against a true level 2 team regardless of the skills they are "allowed to throw". They will be able to max the score sheet easier, have cleaner execution, and are a lot less likely to get deductions.

 

[Nothanks]

what about the girl with level 4-5 skills that chooses to be on senior 2 with her friends instead of senior 4/5?
I'm friends with a girl who chose to do this last season. Was that wrong of her?

 

[FierceinTeal]

Isn't there some rule that you must compete as a team for X amount of time before NCA....and our Jr Black is very good and made up of real level 2 athletes...:chestbump:

I can name atleast 5 kids on junior black off the top of my head that have skills over level 2 and/or have competed higher than level 2 in the past.

 

[TheUltimateFan]

I concur. I don't coach level 2, but since this VERY publicly affected these amazing level 2 teams I love, I say have at it! Many people skip over the more 'deep-thought' posts for the fluffy ones, and this is a way for more people to read, unfortunately.

Now I watched Rockstar's routine (sorry, I'm using you as my example. But you put it out there for better or worse. And I actually think it's both- better for this discussion to have an actual concrete example, worse for the kids affected who lost to this situation and now I have a slightly bitter taste in my mouth that isn't morning breath). I knew the situation, but even if I didn't, my first thought was 'They have REALLY great technique.' One girl had some SERIOUS speed to her BHS. If I didn't know the situation, then came on here to see that this team was made up of athletes with various higher-level skills, I'd be majorly confused and upset. I know CEA uses crossovers extensively, but from what I've always seen, it's usually the same level, just different age groups (youth 5 to junior 5, junior 5 to senior 5, etc). My problem is there was, publicly, an entire team created of athletes who comprised of 2-5 skills, all pushed together on the lowest level of all the kids chosen. Why not choose level 3? It will forever be the question people think of when they see that routine. It also effectively, in my mind, puts to rest the notion that 'Well, everybody is competing the same level skills so it's all the same.' Well- as long as there's an execution component on the score sheet, it WON'T be all the same. In terms of 'filling out' team size- didn't some team at Cheersport this weekend place very well with only 12 girls (I believe top 4?)

I actually noted this same point in thinking through this, but didn't raise it at that time because it would have appeared to have been directed at Rockstar. However, now that we are looking for a solution for everyone, this point definitely comes into play.

And thank you for putting all of these concerns into words so precisely. It goes right to the heart of the problem and explains why some of us feel so strongly about this.

For those who keep going back to the number of teams who use crossovers, please take the time to read the entire thread. That is not what this situation is or what this discussion is about.

 

[TheUltimateFan]

what about the girl with level 4-5 skills that chooses to be on senior 2 with her friends instead of senior 4/5?
I'm friends with a girl who chose to do this last season. Was that wrong of her?

No it wasn't wrong. None of us have the right to judge an individual's decision for personal reasons. But the suggested rule of '2/3 true level' means you would have to have an awful lot of athletes at one program willing to publicly declare their level (via USASF) to be below what it is to have that be a major factor. I just don't see that happening. Pride is in play here.