All-Star Usasf Major Changes

[cali20allstars10]

Gymnastics coach are better trained and certified than most all-star tumbling coaches are. Go ahead and switch to gymnastics, but when they don't let you move on to fulls because you haven't absolutely perfected your layout, you'll be annoyed (or double versus full, whatever your specific tumbling is). Which is precisely what's wrong with cheerleading.

well then maybe usasf should have a mandatory summer clinic for coaches to allbe on the same page. maybe debbie love could teach them!

 

[megaroo714]

we should just not pay any attention to the rules .. what are they gonna do disqualify us all ? then they just wasted all that money on trophy's and banners and they cant give them out because were all disqualified because we through a level 5 skill on a level 5 team.. boycott

 

[Ashley]

well then maybe usasf should have a mandatory summer clinic for coaches to allbe on the same page. maybe debbie love could teach them!

You're right, they should. To be certified in all-star you have to pass a test - to be certified in gymnastics (as one poster explained earlier) you have to go through hours and hours of training just to teach the lower levels of gymnastics.

 

[CoachTamara]

Why in the world would stingrays come out in full support of the new rules? They posted full support on twitter with Charlotte all stars.

This is going to one of the most unpopular posts but I'll bite.
For many owners and coaches that are concerned with the sport moving forward, it is only logical to support these decisions. These things were not done to "punish" athletes, it was done to protect them. I don't agree with standing fulls, but I do think standing doubles should not be allowed. It's not necessary. If these few changes mean the sport can get insured and continue on, then it's worth it. It affects such a small percentage of athletes in the first place, and the benefits outweigh the negatives to me. If it means fewer injuries and still allows for creativity, then go for it. Doubles are not banned, they will just be done differently. It seems like the focus is moving away from flashy and crazy to clean, sync routines. Is this the death of all star? No, it's not. There are still many, MANY things for teams to do and things that have yet to be seen. College cheer made similar changes when doubles were banned, and I don't think it has taken anything away from college cheer.
Do I agree with everything that has come out? Not at all, but the overall gist is for the sport to move forward. It is not out of left field that these mega gyms are supporting it, because at the end of the day it's helping the sport as a whole. Maybe not some gyms that thrive on crazy tumblers, but it means teams will be forced to clean up skills and work on basics for a bit. Will it last forever? Probably not but it's also the only decision that can be made since the USASF has no serious credentialing in place. For right now and what we have in place, it's the safest choice they could make. I think if people get over the initial shock and look at what they still CAN do, it's not as tragic as it sounds. The biggest issue that needs to be discussed is the way this happened with no vote, out of nowhere.


Ready for backlash in 3... 2... 1...

 

[mstric1]

IMO, several of these new 'rules' are common sense (at least to me) our gym has put in practice the 'etiquette' and 'image' rules for YEARS. They've believed in perfection before progression for YEARS, our athletes condition at each practice, are given nutritional counseling. our gym does everything within their power to make sure our athletes are ready to perform the routines and the skills that they have worked so very hard to get. There are a lot of elite gyms that do this very same thing. HOWEVER, we all know for every gym that follows this practice, there is at least one that says, ok your landing your layout, lets move on to fulls, or caves to the pressure of an over zealous parent pushing to get 'Suzi' on a higher level team or throwing skills she has no business throwing. or puts there athletes in uniforms that so ridiculously ugly, they make the devil cry.....these are the people that are going to ruin our sport. USASF is putting the bandaid on the wrong cut....let's address cheating, coaches sleeping with minors, drug and alcohol use by coaches and athletes (sometimes coaches with athletes). let's address credentialling, universal score sheet, good sportsmanship (not the 'don't cheer when you know you've won 1st), real sportsmanship, public service, education....sorry i could go on and on....rant over.

I totally agree with this post. The USASF has adressed the wrong issues. I also believe that if they have the power to make changes to these rules they also have the power to make changes that will improve the quality and the integrity of the sport in a meaningful manner.

The issue is not tumbling difficulty, but rather it is cheer gyms and cheer parents putting their athletes in positions where they are not properly trained and properly skilled. This is not just about tumbling, but also includes all skills. Bases and flyers are at just as much risk for injury because their stunt group has been rushed to do skills that they are not prepared to do.

The issue is not the age grid, but rather enforcing an age grid. It doesn't matter what the age grid states, if there is no real enforcement for whatever ages have been specified.

And with the USASF only choosing address these two issues they are completely silent on the other issues that face this sport: transparency in judging and score sheets, lack of a universal score sheet, overly lenient substitution and alternate rules for World's, cross over policies that permit gamesmanship by the gyms. These are the factors that are making hurting the legitimacy of the sport. Limiting the size of the bows is not the answer.

 

[ztaprincess]

Last night on the call Debbie Love stated that she has been doing her own research, which the board NEVER asked to see, and she has found that there are more injuries from STRAIGHT doubles then standing fulls and bounding skills. She also stated that in her 40+ years of doing what she does she has had 1 ACL injury, once again the board never asked what caused that injury. Listening to hear speak I could tell she was completely in shock. She is part of the USASF and was never approached about this, her children had to inform her. If the Board is taking it so far that they are going over their own member's heads then that is pure corruption.

It was also discussed on the call last night whether certain gym owners will keep their mouths shut or agree with then USASF because worlds is around the corner, how pathetic is it that a gym can't even voice their real opinion because they are scared of a group of people that only hold power because we allow them.

I truly think that the board needs wiped clean and started from scratch. Why are these people allowed to do what they did? Because people have rolled over and let them in the past, but that needs to change. They clearly can't even understand the basic concept of a governing body if they think that they did is perfectly fine and legit.

I may be one of the only ones that agree with the uniform and age changes (other then the youth age change). I do not agree with the comment about boys, but it does not surprise me at all after hearing them in Dorall. Several big name gym owners said that they thought something needed to be done about it. NCA College did something similar when they changed it so that boys no longer got scored in the dance. They could have made the rule without making it sound the way that it did and instead saying both girls AND boys need to refrain from it.

 

[viralscorp]

And with the USASF only choosing address these two issues they are completely silent on the other issues that face this sport: transparency in judging and score sheets, lack of a universal score sheet, overly lenient substitution and alternate rules for World's, cross over policies that permit gamesmanship by the gyms. These are the factors that are making hurting the legitimacy of the sport. Limiting the size of the bows is not the answer.

Double shimmy!

 

[njallday]

Why in the world would stingrays come out in full support of the new rules? They posted full support on twitter with Charlotte all stars.

Not singling you out Cheetahmom - These programs seem to have the "full picture" in mind. and surprisingly they are some of the gyms with the most individually talented athletes. The keyword there, though, is individual.

I will use WC for example because most people in these thread seem to be outraged by WC's support since Elaine is on the board, yet she has her own athletes competing the skills she just diminished. My view on it is she, and many other big names, were able to step back from their own gyms for a second. She happens to have an exceptional talent on her team, Kelsey (and toni, brooke, katie, lyric, etc all doing intense passes.) She has seen kelsey train from at least the age of 10. She knows this individual athlete's abilities. She knows Kelsey is conditioned enough to successfully attempt and complete these skills. She also knows that Kelsey is one of thousands of level 5 athletes in the country, and those thousands of athletes are no Kelsey. And unfortunately, not all the gyms in the country are WC (TG, Rays, CA, insert gym name here.) Elaine has a staff that can train Kelsey at this level, ABC allstars don't.

The consensus seems to be since she just voted to remove these skills her athletes are a walking contradiction. But this battle doesn't seem to be about the actual athletes competing skills. it is about who is training these athletes and how they are training them. that is the issue. if it takes a year with no standing fulls to design and implement a training system, so be it.

Do I agree with the abrupt announcement of the rules? absolutely not. But they did just what you asked. When they announce rules in November, you flip because teams are already made, choreography is already happening, etc. The USASF finally gave you the heads up you wanted before tryouts and you're still angry. It seems no one will ever be satisfied.

And after reading the last 60 pages, some additional general thoughts:

For those complaining about the dress code: Please go back and read your own comments on the new uni thread. You more or less asked for this to happen. To the complaints that crossovers to junior and senior will need 2 separate tops: here's a thought, 1 don't crossover, or 2 the whole gym can wear a full top. There ya go, I just solved all your problems.

For those complaining about the singling out of the male gender: I wholeheartedly agree with you. I hope the USASF receives thousands of complaint letters because that is just not okay. ever. Cheer should be your escape from reality and bullying and now the powers that be of cheerleading are bullying you? nope. not okay.

 

[chyeeaaa69]

Okay the next person to compare the USASF to Hitler and the Nazi party is literally getting punched in the face. Give me your address, I will come and find you, and punch you in the face.
People are seriously overreacting about how bad this is.

 

[idrive]

For those of you who say raising the "Open" age to 17 is good because of all the attention drawn to questionable interactions between adults and children in cheer... how many of those questionable situations were actually between athletes on the same team?

The older athletes are still going to be in the gym with the little ones, still going to the same competitions, still sharing all that time and space... In fact, a lot of older, open-aged athletes are coaches at their gym!! If this is actually a problem, then this is not an appropriate solution.

I completely agree. If you are at a gym where the older kids act inappropriately then leave now! If the coaches have control over thier program then this won't be a problem and I can say has not been at our gym.

 

[Cheetahmom]

This is going to one of the most unpopular posts but I'll bite.
For many owners and coaches that are concerned with the sport moving forward, it is only logical to support these decisions. These things were not done to "punish" athletes, it was done to protect them. I don't agree with standing fulls, but I do think standing doubles should not be allowed. It's not necessary. If these few changes mean the sport can get insured and continue on, then it's worth it. It affects such a small percentage of athletes in the first place, and the benefits outweigh the negatives to me. If it means fewer injuries and still allows for creativity, then go for it. Doubles are not banned, they will just be done differently. It seems like the focus is moving away from flashy and crazy to clean, sync routines. Is this the death of all star? No, it's not. There are still many, MANY things for teams to do and things that have yet to be seen. College cheer made similar changes when doubles were banned, and I don't think it has taken anything away from college cheer.
Do I agree with everything that has come out? Not at all, but the overall gist is for the sport to move forward. It is not out of left field that these mega gyms are supporting it, because at the end of the day it's helping the sport as a whole. Maybe not some gyms that thrive on crazy tumblers, but it means teams will be forced to clean up skills and work on basics for a bit. Will it last forever? Probably not but it's also the only decision that can be made since the USASF has no serious credentialing in place. For right now and what we have in place, it's the safest choice they could make. I think if people get over the initial shock and look at what they still CAN do, it's not as tragic as it sounds. The biggest issue that needs to be discussed is the way this happened with no vote, out of nowhere.


Ready for backlash in 3... 2... 1...

Well I can only respond from my cps personal experience. She happens to love standing tumbling, it's her passion. She has been doing standing fulls since 9 and toe fulls, she is always pushing herself to get a new skill. She is only 14 and has a long time left in all star and this happens to be her gift. It's not right to arbitrarily take certain things away and who is to say the method they are proposing is any safer. Someone can twist their ankle at any moment, doing anything in a routine. We started all star because their were winners and losers and always an individual goal to strive for to support your team. This is a fundamental aspect of living with and working with others. I have invested 50k into this life lesson and at the end she is learning that working hard was all for nothing. Her goals this year two to double and triple toe full. Both items ready for competition but won't be needed after a month.


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I am here: Google Maps

 

[chyeeaaa69]

I am reading over and over that people are complaining about Elaine's support for it and Rays and so on and so forth, people are saying "well their athletes are competing the very skills they are against". Like it's been said, these coaches are not against the skills themselves, they're against unqualified coaches teaching athletes who are barely able to do the skill that would normally come before it expecting that athlete to compete it.
Personally, what I would like to see, is bounding skills taken out of standing tumbling (meaning 1, 2, and 3 to doubles would still be allowed), jumps to full taken out, and standing doubles taken out. I'd also like to see an increase in how heavily technique is weighed on the score sheet.

 

[flyergymgirl125]

Gymnastics coach are better trained and certified than most all-star tumbling coaches are. Go ahead and switch to gymnastics, but when they don't let you move on to fulls because you haven't absolutely perfected your layout, you'll be annoyed (or double versus full, whatever your specific tumbling is). Which is precisely what's wrong with cheerleading.

Just wanted to add that gymnastics involves 4 events (vault, bars, beam and floor) and strong tumbling will not help you on beam and bars where balance and upper arm strength are used. And that darn Level 5 kip on bars is so darn tricky!!!

I also think that with having the 4 events in gymnastics makes them more conditioned in a more well-rounded way. They also train a lot more hours which helps with the conditioning and reduction of injuries (at least at the lower levels). In gymnastics you also have to score out to be eligible for the next level AND you have to have all the required skills on ALL 4 events.

 

[CharlotteASMom]

Charlotte makes sense... with their exceptional stunting these changes actually put them at a major advantage.

I appreciate the kind words about stunting!

While I do not speak for the gym, I feel comfortable in saying that Charlotte supports the rules because they feel that it's best for the sport; not because it specifically benefits their program. Anyone who has been a part CAC knows that it's just not how they operate. Additioally they have plenty of standing tumbling that would be eliminated with the rules just as other gyms do!

 

[Xtremegirls:)]

Okay the next person to compare the USASF to Hitler and the Nazi party is literally getting punched in the face. Give me your address, I will come and find you, and punch you in the face.
People are seriously overreacting about how bad this is.

I agree with you. Everyone needs to take a breath take a step back and really get the whole picture of these rule changes.