All-Star Usasf Major Changes

[Level5Mom]

The thing is, sure it may look like it is leveling the playing field, but those teams that could double like crazy (F5 for example) will still throwing those fulls like crazy. The same teams that would have won without the rule will still win with the rule.

Level5Mom have you tried asking Debbie Love? She may be the ones person that could help with that over everyone else, but then again she too was trying to find these stats that they used.

It is my understanding that she is looking for the same study.....I will check with her. But surely someone on the boards has access to it?

 

[mycheerforlife]

i think this is ridiculous seriously the athletes that have worked so hard to get all those skills deserve it. We can't do standing fulls anymore that's insane, gymnasts do standing full on beams and we cant dot them on a spring floor in hopes to fix out sport and make it a true sport that's not fare. I know me personally i have worked so many hours on standing fulls, what now all that is a waste. no. the skill was invented for people who are in shape and have the technique to do so we get punished for that?

 

[JumpingJackFlash]

I really believe they did this to level the playing field and disguised it as safety. I've seen more injuries from stunting then from tumbling. These tumbling tricks they want to take away are not being done by the inexperienced.

They need to deduct bigtime for tumbling that has no business being on the floor. As soon as they do that, the coaches won't put it out there till its ready. I'm not talking about a every pass that busts, that happens. But you all can clearly see the fulls, doubles (back handsprings and tucks also) etc that make you cringe. If you have a team with 10 double fulls, and 8 of them under rotate, DEDUCT with a big fat safety violation. You lose! Then, you won't see them on the floor again till they're ready.

 

[mycheerforlife]

I also believe one of the true causes of the tumbling messes that we see on the floor is that some coaches are not usasf certified i believe that should be mandatory and it should be mandatory for the coaches to have some sort of usasf training because the tumbling we see comes from the coaches teaching it to the kids and then putting it in a routine and some times the coaches do not have the correct knowledge which is scary.

 

[drewpate]

I'm hearing the same thing from certain gyms. "Level the playing field" but the eliminate super gyms I hadn't heard. Just that it would allow alot more movement out of the "super" gyms because everything won't be based on having these multiple, super tumblers. I don't think it would come even close to eliminating them. The small gyms, and even larger gyms that have struggled a bit keeping up with the winning teams with level 5 tumbling are embracing every bit of this. "Dumb it down, then we can win." Whats this world coming to? I blame Obama...

I am from a medium sized gym who has problems hanging in tumbling. The only thing that would help us would be to devalue tumbling.

I can guarantee that if we end up eliminating two to doubles.... as soon as we start getting squad two to fulls top gun and stingrays, cheer athletics etc will have some crazy squad tumbling pass like hurlder bhs whip bhs full bhs stepout roff bhs double. Guess what, we still can't hang. Our best athletes can be equal or close to their best, but they still have the numbers in their favor and until we step our game in many areas we will still be getting beat by the same margin in tumbling. This makes it seem easier to field a level 5 team, it sure as heck does not make it easier to win in level 5.

 

[GreatWhite92]

I really believe they did this to level the playing field and disguised it as safety. I've seen more injuries from stunting then from tumbling. These tumbling tricks they want to take away are not being done by the inexperienced.

I agree both coaches I have talked to were so excited that they wouldn't have to worry about having to have these skills anymore to win. They think that now because they dont have these skills they can win...

 

[JumpingJackFlash]

I am from a medium sized gym who has problems hanging in tumbling. The only thing that would help us would be to devalue tumbling.

I can guarantee that if we end up eliminating two to doubles.... as soon as we start getting squad two to fulls top gun and stingrays, cheer athletics etc will have some crazy squad tumbling pass like hurlder bhs whip bhs full bhs stepout roff bhs double. Guess what, we still can't hang. Our best athletes can be equal or close to their best, but they still have the numbers in their favor and until we step our game in many areas we will still be getting beat by the same margin in tumbling. This makes it seem easier to field a level 5 team, it sure as heck does not make it easier to win in level 5.

Excellent post and exactly what I was thinking!

 

[lcheergirl]

I agree this is the reason they did this, and have been thinking it all along. If this is the case then why not create another division like majors just for the powerhouse gyms so they can still throw all these skills. Or how about make divisons by the size of your gyms, which would make it more competetive as well. Taking away these skills will only cause more injuries, by people trying crazy stuff, and hurt the sport.

 

[Keep_Believing]

I'm hearing the same thing from certain gyms. "Level the playing field" but the eliminate super gyms I hadn't heard. Just that it would allow alot more movement out of the "super" gyms because everything won't be based on having these multiple, super tumblers. I don't think it would come even close to eliminating them. The small gyms, and even larger gyms that have struggled a bit keeping up with the winning teams with level 5 tumbling are embracing every bit of this. "Dumb it down, then we can win." Whats this world coming to? I blame Obama...

I thought Restricted Level 5 leveled the playing field. It give a different option for level 5 to fit different needs.

 

[yojaehs]

I came across this and it is definitely worth reading. Again not saying I agree with everything but just gives a little insight for some.

Be Careful What You Wish For

by Pro Women Pro Sport Pro Acro and Tumbling on Friday, March 30, 2012 at 1:19pm ·​

​

The ironic thing about the cheerleading community reacting to the new rules for next season is that the activity of cheerleading is getting exactly what it asked for. Before I go any farther, two things must be made clear. Cheerleading is not considered a sport by the mainstream sports world although I firmly believe competitive cheer can be a sport. Secondly, I fully support competitive cheer as a sport and hope it will find it's path to becoming recognized by the mainstream sports world and corresponding authorities (i.e. USOC, SportAccord, FISU, IOC).
With that being said, the irony of the situation is clear. The cheerleaders wished to be seen as a sport, now they are getting a taste of it. Take a look at football.
When the wave of concussion concern swept through sports media and the NFL was the center of it, science said that collisions in football were getting extremely dangerous as the athletes were getting bigger, stronger and fastser and thus, colliding harder. As a response, the NFL effectively minimalized the #1 high impact collision play in football, the kick off return. The NFL passed a new rule that moved the football closer to the endzone which made it inevitbale that nearly ever kicker will kick the football through the endzone and no one will be able to return it. This has nearly eliminated the value of kick off return specialists and one of the most exciting plays in football. The NFL didn't hesitate making the call when the decision was safety vs popularity.
Now that competitive cheer is making tremendous efforts to be recognized as a sport (thank Acrobatics and Tumbling, The NCATA), more and more health care professionals are being engaged to study the effects of the activities involved in competitive cheer. More records are being kept documenting injuries from competitive cheer. More professionals in sport are taking a look at how things are done in competitive cheer. This is the same scrutiny and support that most other sports are blessed and burdened with. In the end, as it should be, science dictates the rules. Safety is the primary fundamental of all athletics. Even the NCAA itself was specifically created to address the safety of football players back in 1905 when mass formations and gang tackling resulted in numerous injuries and even death. Competitive Cheer must now be exposed to true science and consequently, new regulation. It might not be popular, it might not make sense and it might even reduce the skill level in the sport. However, safety and science will trump popularity in sports every time.
It's too late to turn back and hopefully no one will miss the bigger picture by wanting to step out of the spotlight and go backwards to unregulated times. There are more growing pains to be endured, but that is the price to be paid to move forward. As activity becomes sport, rules develop. As a sport becomes a more developed sport, rules adapt. There could be a day when spinning three times is the norm.
The teams will adjust, competitive cheer will be safer and a new trend will catch everyone's attention just as easy as the next uniform innovation, which appropriately will now be rated G!

And if this is the reason and there is proof/documentation and is voted on then there wouldn't be a problem. I have done my research I have asked talked with the best of the best. Eliminating these skills will change nothing. Using the NFL as an example is useless bc they not only showed documentation but insisted that coaches adjust techniques. As I've said before, a standing tuck taught by a poor coach is more dangerous than a standing double taught by a qualified one. I know I'm beating a dead horse and I will continue to do so until it turns to glue and the fact that this was not voted on correctly and coaches lack of knowledge is the problem sticks. As said before you can run and hide under whatever smokescreen makes justifying this while thing to yourself you want. The facts are the facts, MORE injuries come from incomplete fulls/doubles than from the ones made illegal. The elite tumblers aren't getting hurt bc they are elite and know what they are doing and being trained properly. This will fix nothing, there, I've said it again.

 

[JumpingJackFlash]

I thought Restricted Level 5 leveled the playing field. It give a different option for level 5 to fit different needs.

I agree, but it seems it wasn't "level" enough to USASF.

 

[aybrandonallstars]

They aren't meeting again for a few days. We won't hear anything else till probably Monday at the earliest.

Okay. Thanks!

 

[lcheergirl]

I really believe they did this to level the playing field and disguised it as safety. I've seen more injuries from stunting then from tumbling. These tumbling tricks they want to take away are not being done by the inexperienced.

They need to deduct bigtime for tumbling that has no business being on the floor. As soon as they do that, the coaches won't put it out there till its ready. I'm not talking about a every pass that busts, that happens. But you all can clearly see the fulls, doubles (back handsprings and tucks also) etc that make you cringe. If you have a team with 10 double fulls, and 8 of them under rotate, DEDUCT with a big fat safety violation. You lose! Then, you won't see them on the floor again till they're ready.

Lets face it, we all know in each division, who the top five is going to be almost every year. Do you think they did this because they thought that would shake it up? I do agree with every thing you say, and agree this was not done for safety, and think this is the only thing that logically makes any sense at all for these changes. Because if this was about safety, we all know certain stunting is much more dangerous, and some of these skills in tumbling they removed are being used in High School.

 

[Keep_Believing]

we all know certain stunting is much more dangerous

Exactly!!!!!!!!! The most serious severe injuries I have seen, know of, & have heard of are from stunting including concusions & even fatal injuries.

 

[JumpingJackFlash]

What I want to see are TRUE injury statistics. By level and by circumstance. Nothing else, no bells and whistles.

1. Level?

2. How were you injured?
A. Stunting
B. Pyramid
C. Tumbling
D. I'm a klutz and sprained my ankle while flipping my hair and doing a AWESOME shimmy.

I'm done with this so-called Board of Directors spouting whatever they feel to get the outcome THEY want, not what the industry, or the people want.