All-Star Usasf Major Changes

[GreatWhite92]

Just because Courtney posted it on twitter, I have been wondering this...How is synchronized tumbling which they are pushing big time "25 people flipping and twisting at the same time" not more dangerous than 1 person doing a whip pass??? I have seen more people hit each other and go down trying to tumble next to each other than by themself..

 

[My3KidsMom]

And if this is the reason and there is proof/documentation and is voted on then there wouldn't be a problem. I have done my research I have asked talked with the best of the best. Eliminating these skills will change nothing. Using the NFL as an example is useless bc they not only showed documentation but insisted that coaches adjust techniques. As I've said before, a standing tuck taught by a poor coach is more dangerous than a standing double taught by a qualified one. I know I'm beating a dead horse and I will continue to do so until it turns to glue and the fact that this was not voted on correctly and coaches lack of knowledge is the problem sticks. As said before you can run and hide under whatever smokescreen makes justifying this while thing to yourself you want. The facts are the facts, MORE injuries come from incomplete fulls/doubles than from the ones made illegal. The elite tumblers aren't getting hurt bc they are elite and know what they are doing and being trained properly. This will fix nothing, there, I've said it again.

As I stated i'm not saying I agree nor disagree, I just think it is worth a read. I want this sport to be safe for everyone. I will not make conclusions or claim to "know" what is best because I don't. I have spent many years in this sport watching and learning but I still do not know the answers as I have not researched any injury statistics. I can make an educated guess when it comes to High School double downs because I myself watched my daughter and listened to her complain about getting knocked in the head by flyers who "know" it all and won't change what THEY are doing causing her injuries. I also know that after my daughter broke her femur doing a whip double we were made aware that whip doubles where the most common tumbling pass that injures female athletes. Not because they can't throw them but because of the way females tend to land as opposed to men. Every sport has risks but without all the information I don't want to throw a fit and belittle people involved for what I "think" I "know". There is a proper way to go about making a change and hopefully ALL sides can come to an agreement and make this sport we all love better.

 

[SuzyB]

Can anyone provide me with a way to access the scientific research study that shows that standing fulls, standing to doubles and bounding skills must be eliminated? I'd like to analyze the data to see how it was done. I am particularly interested in sample size and control group. I would assume it is published data? I can't imagine the USASF would create rules this drastic without a concrete, scientific, unbiased study......where is it? Can someone please provide me with the name of the study at least so that I can look up where it was published, or at least tell me which scientific journal it was published in so I can do a search?????

I will gladly purchase a copy of it if necessary.....please just tell me where to find it. Anyone?

Why would you need a control group? And a control group of what? I think what we need to see is the number of athletes who have certain skills, and the number of athletes who get injured at that skill. I highly doubt that research exists, although it would not be impossible to obtain through a survey of a random sample of gyms.

 

[Level5Mom]

Why would you need a control group? And a control group of what? I think what we need to see is the number of athletes who have certain skills, and the number of athletes who get injured at that skill. I highly doubt that research exists, although it would not be impossible to obtain through a survey of a random sample of gyms.

A control group is used to test a causal hypothesis. Without a control group you can't be sure what was the cause of what you are studying.

 

[JumpingJackFlash]

Why would you need a control group? And a control group of what? I think what we need to see is the number of athletes who have certain skills, and the number of athletes who get injured at that skill. I highly doubt that research exists, although it would not be impossible to obtain through a survey of a random sample of gyms.

USASF's scientific research is probably as scientific as the Injury Poll on this board. I have to say though, I would love to see what Level5Mom is looking for and as well what you want to see. Also, the injury. I can sprain my ankle crossing the street, does that mean I need to take a cab from now on?

 

[TheVipersMom]

Just because Courtney posted it on twitter, I have been wondering this...How is synchronized tumbling which they are pushing big time "25 people flipping and twisting at the same time" not more dangerous than 1 person doing a whip pass??? I have seen more people hit each other and go down trying to tumble next to each other than by themself..

At our last competition day 2 our sr 4 had a little problem. One girls hand kind of tapped another girl in the open synchronized tumbling and she it caused her to bust. Then after that it just went down hill. She kind of got upset a couple times threw out the routine and she just stood there. I felt so bad for her. I heard afterwards it was an expected concussion I'm not sure if it was though. Then the stunts started falling and one girl was so close to hitting the ground and you heard the collective sigh of terror from the crowd. It was so bad! I felt terrible for them because they looked great on day 1. Things happen and no one was mad at anyone they just kind of fell apart. The thing is it was sr 4 so it wasn't standing fulls or doubles or bounding passes. The problem was synchronized tumbling and the stunts. I can't think of any other injuries we had all year on any team. The most dangerous thing any of our teams did was stunts and pyramids. I would say at every competition if we had a problem that was were we struggled. So that's why I don't understand these rules falling under safety. I love our kids and they are so much better then what happened that day!

I just don't understand how they would be ok taking those things away from the kids that worked so hard. & let's say you do get hurt because of a freak accident doesn't most of the kids want to come back that much stronger and get better instead of give up and quit.

To kind of know what I'm talking about here is the video:


watch the black girl in the very center front, when she starts tumbling backward watch the girl tumbling toward the front on the left of her and you will kind of see how she tapped her. Then in the stunts watch the left front one. If you wait till the jumps the same girl who got hit after she does the first part of the jumps just notice she freezes. She is in the very front of jumps. I felt so bad for these girls!

 

[cheermommaRN]

I work in pediatrics and spent last night on our health library system trying to find ANYTHING that was peer reviewed and published. I found NOTHING. Not one health journal has published a study looking at how twisting skills or bounding passes result in catastrophic injuries. In order for a study to be considered "valid" in the health industry it has to be published in a reputable health journal and also be "peer reviewed" meaning an independent panel of nurses or doctors went through it with a fine tooth comb to make sure everything was ethical and the statistics are not skewed.
So as a nurse I would LOVE to see the study that was done, who organized it, what was the system of measurement? Did they only measure the injuries at their competitions or did they have results from gyms also (doubt it)? Also why would you undertake a study of that size that would have such an impact on the industry but not consult the Independent Producers or people who are known to be leaders in the tumbling area?

 

[yojaehs]

As I stated i'm not saying I agree nor disagree, I just think it is worth a read. I want this sport to be safe for everyone. I will not make conclusions or claim to "know" what is best because I don't. I have spent many years in this sport watching and learning but I still do not know the answers as I have not researched any injury statistics. I can make an educated guess when it comes to High School double downs because I myself watched my daughter and listened to her complain about getting knocked in the head by flyers who "know" it all and won't change what THEY are doing causing her injuries. I also know that after my daughter broke her femur doing a whip double we were made aware that whip doubles where the most common tumbling pass that injures female athletes. Not because they can't throw them but because of the way females tend to land as opposed to men. Every sport has risks but without all the information I don't want to throw a fit and belittle people involved for what I "think" I "know". There is a proper way to go about making a change and hopefully ALL sides can come to an agreement and make this sport we all love better.

First let me say that I am very sorry for any injury your daughter may have suffered. I'm not saying that stats and research aren't important. My research shows that straight fulls/doubles are the major injuries suffered from tumbling. I will see of I can find it. Again, I have way more if a problem of the way this has been done and then putting a bandaid on it. If we all talk about it this and facts are given and then it's voted on I'm all for it. I'm not too keen on taking the word of people that have not followed the predetermined protocol and then asking me to believe that this is for safety without proof. Injuries happen, the preventable injuries are what I have an issue with. My gym is proactive and has a PT come to the gym twice a week and evaluates kids from all levels to asses injuries and help evaluate against injuries. This is the first time I have ever heard that females suffer injuries from whip doubles more than any other. I believe you, I'm just saying that in my 15+ years as a coach and 10 years as a power tumbler I've never heard that. I want a safer sport but I want it on facts not just opinions.

 

[Level5Mom]

USASF's scientific research is probably as scientific as the Injury Poll on this board. I have to say though, I would love to see what Level5Mom is looking for and as well what you want to see. Also, the injury. I can sprain my ankle crossing the street, does that mean I need to take a cab from now on?

Scientific data can be convincing. I would love to see them prove themselves right with the study they used to base these rules from. It would be transparent and clear up consipiracy theories. But I already got my answer via facebook. There was no scientific study.

 

[My3KidsMom]

First let me say that I am very sorry for any injury your daughter may have suffered. I'm not saying that stats and research aren't important. My research shows that straight fulls/doubles are the major injuries suffered from tumbling. I will see of I can find it. Again, I have way more if a problem of the way this has been done and then putting a bandaid on it. If we all talk about it this and facts are given and then it's voted on I'm all for it. I'm not too keen on taking the word of people that have not followed the predetermined protocol and then asking me to believe that this is for safety without proof. Injuries happen, the preventable injuries are what I have an issue with. My gym is proactive and has a PT come to the gym twice a week and evaluates kids from all levels to asses injuries and help evaluate against injuries. This is the first time I have ever heard that females suffer injuries from whip doubles more than any other. I believe you, I'm just saying that in my 15+ years as a coach and 10 years as a power tumbler I've never heard that. I want a safer sport but I want it on facts not just opinions.

My daughters injury is not common, I mean she had never been injured so I guess she went for the big one, however ACL and severe knee injuries are much more common for females than males. I will post a little piece of an article.

Talk about a gender gap: Simply being female means we are up to eight times more likely to suffer a severe knee injury than we would be if we had a Y chromosome. Researchers believe a woman's wider hips place the thighbone at a more extreme angle where it meets the knee, putting strain on the anterior cruciate ligament (ACL); female hormones that keep connective tissue pliable may also weaken the knee. Now it looks as if an exercise regimen developed by the Santa Monica Orthopaedic and Sports Medicine Research Foundation and tested by the CDC's Injury Center may offer women real protection.

Read more: http://www.oprah.com/health/Knee-Strengthening-Exercises-Prevent-Knee-Injuries-with-PEP-Regimen#ixzz1qe7CuIQp

 

[lcheergirl]

There was a show on sports science that compared cheerleading to football. They concluded that the most dangerous part of cheer came from stunting. This occurred when a stunt fell to the ground. Said a flyers head would have around 1500 pounds of force. They compared this to Tackle in football which had 1200 pounds of force. That said the height flyers come down from adds to the force, making it great. This study was done by scientists and doctors, where they put monitors on dummies to show the force. This show was on I believe the history channel and showed all aspects of cheer and football, and determined cheer to be a more dangerous sport, because of the stunting. The impact on tumbling was great but nowhere near the force, and risk in stunting. I will find clip and post.

 

[SuzyB]

Exactly...so what is your control population? In a research study that you suggest you would have a control population and a treatment group. You would compare results of the tx group with control group. So what do you suggest the treatment group receive that the control group doesn't.

 

[StarshipTrooper]

If you want to limit tumbling injuries make sure post pubertal athletes who had a skill before their transformation keep the ability and technique as their bodies change and their bones and joints mature. No double blind study, but the serious injuries I see are kids trying to throw skills that their bodies no longer want them throwing. I think it has little or nothing to do with the skill being thrown. It has everything to do with the athletic conditioning and ability matching the heart of the athlete.

 

[kianna patrice]

To be completely honest I do not agree with USASF new rules but if they are making new rules to make the sport "safe" then they should not make cheerleading a sport because taking away the things we have worked so hard for is the same as just taking away everything to me because no matter what USASF does the sport will never be 100% safe ...I mean its sad and no one wants it to happen but someone can hurt themselves hitting the ending pose or doing a double double..I rather work for all of my skills and throw them at competition then work for them and throw them in the trash ...everyone go like the USASF protest page on facebook

 

[kykycheermom]

I work in pediatrics and spent last night on our health library system trying to find ANYTHING that was peer reviewed and published. I found NOTHING. Not one health journal has published a study looking at how twisting skills or bounding passes result in catastrophic injuries. In order for a study to be considered "valid" in the health industry it has to be published in a reputable health journal and also be "peer reviewed" meaning an independent panel of nurses or doctors went through it with a fine tooth comb to make sure everything was ethical and the statistics are not skewed.
So as a nurse I would LOVE to see the study that was done, who organized it, what was the system of measurement? Did they only measure the injuries at their competitions or did they have results from gyms also (doubt it)? Also why would you undertake a study of that size that would have such an impact on the industry but not consult the Independent Producers or people who are known to be leaders in the tumbling area?

Yes. This. I'd also like to know if there was/would be a consideration of the quantity of times they run a skill vs number of injuries that athlete sustained. You run a pass 1000 times, sprain your ankle 1 time, does that qualify it as dangerous? How does that figure into the percentages when quantity is considered, as I believe it should be.