All-Star Petite Flyer Discrimination

[bellalexi]

I've noticed what seems to be a lot of flyer bashing on this board. I don't know if stems from resentment or what, but there seems to be unfair pressure on a flyer to be perfect in every way. I'm sure some bases would be offended if there were threads saying girls with big muscular thighs are THE best bases, hands down, and that skinnier girls just aren't as good. If you read the Cheer Pet Peeves thread, half the complaints are about flyers, and have a catty tone to them, IMO. God forbid they don't have perfect body positions, body control, body type, or even (gasp!) weigh more than their bases. There are several factors that go into choosing flyers and it's not simply because they are the most flexible or lightest ones on the team. I'm sorry if you can pull a straight spike and your flyer cannot. That was your coach's decision to have her fly. Take it up with your coach, but don't take it out on your flyer. I know this has been brought up ad nauseum, but yes, the flyer gets the kudos for a solid stunt and bears the brunt of shame when a stunt falls, especially during a competition. The fact is, while every person in a stunt group is important, flyers DO have an extra element of pressure/stress in a routine that the rest of the team doesn't. I have noticed that we tend to pick flyers apart from head to toe, looking for something to critique. If a flyer looks otherwise flawless, well it's only because she has fabulous bases keeping her up there. Can't we all just recognize that it's a perfect storm of awesomeness that makes a great team and while the roles may be different, everyone is equally important? I guess in a female dominated sport, that's not likely to happen.

 

[Keep_Believing]

Perfect storm of awesomeness that makes a great team!!! I love that!!!

 

[AndrewSky]

My issue isn't with petite flyers. It's when gyms deliberately fly babies for no apparent reason or when they bump babies up to a worlds team who don't have level 5 skills.
Teams lose so much credibility to me when they do that.

 

[12stepCheermom]

I have about a million things to say to this but can't phrase any of them. This one hits a little close to home for me.

So I'll say this much....

....why does it matter what everyone else thinks? Here are the important questions....1) is your child a good flyer? 2) does she work hard 3) does she deserve to be in the air and 4) are your coaches in agreement since she is actually flying...which would indicate they are.

If those answers are all "yes," what does it matter what someone thinks? So maybe they assume shes on the team just because she's small....let her shut them up with her skills in the air. That perception will change very quickly. I think there's a lot of wasted energy in trying to prove or argue that someone should be in the air...if they should be there...regardless of what they look like....let them prove it with what they do, not what people say. Because I don't care who you are, you (generally) look like an idiot if you say, "oh she's only flying because she's tiny" and the child breaks out a hitch kick double full.

Who looks small then?

I'm all about saying what needs to be said on the mat. What comes out of mouths isn't scored, and doesn't matter...so focus on the important things.

 

[CD FOREVER AND EVA!]

IMO the height and/or size of flyer is obsolete... if they can not pull body positions, hold their own weight, squeeze, and be tight and confident in the air regardless of size then they shouldn't be in the air PERIOD ... in my experience the more controlled flexible flyers look best

On my HS teams my tallest cheerleader is a flyer and my smallest cheerleader is a flyer ... both look good in the air ... but when creating a routine I would need some symetry in the sizes of the flyer and the taller flyer would need to be center of pyramid for example

 

[12stepCheermom]

My issue isn't with petite flyers. It's when gyms deliberately fly babies for no apparent reason or when they bump babies up to a worlds team who don't have level 5 skills.
Teams lose so much credibility to me when they do that.

Provided you actually know that's what they're doing. I gotta get off this thread because it's raising my blood pressure. for the record, I'm ranting...it's not directed at you Andrew.

How about if you have a girl in your gym that has a genetic disorder that keeps her ridiculously small, and hospitalized, and with a million other symptoms, including a life expectancy most of us have already passed on this board, yet that child is a fighter, gets hormone shots and pharmeceutical therapy every single night for basically the rest of her life, overcomes, is a great flyer with amazing flexibility and body contorl and is actually 12 years old and (if you have a gym that HAS ethics) won't put her on a mini team even though no one would EVER question it because she literally looks like she is 7 and the minis are bigger than she is.....

...so they put her on a junior team (because they dont lie about ages) at less than four feet tall, when she looks 7, and people assume we're flying babies and lose respect for us....

The point of the story is maybe we shouldn't pass judgement on anyone unless we actually know the circumstances and aren't just speculating.

 

[mommy2mygirls]

I've noticed what seems to be a lot of flyer bashing on this board. I don't know if stems from resentment or what, but there seems to be unfair pressure on a flyer to be perfect in every way. I'm sure some bases would be offended if there were threads saying girls with big muscular thighs are THE best bases, hands down, and that skinnier girls just aren't as good. If you read the Cheer Pet Peeves thread, half the complaints are about flyers, and have a catty tone to them, IMO. God forbid they don't have perfect body positions, body control, body type, or even (gasp!) weigh more than their bases. There are several factors that go into choosing flyers and it's not simply because they are the most flexible or lightest ones on the team. I'm sorry if you can pull a straight spike and your flyer cannot. That was your coach's decision to have her fly. Take it up with your coach, but don't take it out on your flyer. I know this has been brought up ad nauseum, but yes, the flyer gets the kudos for a solid stunt and bears the brunt of shame when a stunt falls, especially during a competition. The fact is, while every person in a stunt group is important, flyers DO have an extra element of pressure/stress in a routine that the rest of the team doesn't. I have noticed that we tend to pick flyers apart from head to toe, looking for something to critique. If a flyer looks otherwise flawless, well it's only because she has fabulous bases keeping her up there. Can't we all just recognize that it's a perfect storm of awesomeness that makes a great team and while the roles may be different, everyone is equally important? I guess in a female dominated sport, that's not likely to happen.

This is seriously the best post I have read in awhile.

 

[NoDramaCheerMama]

I'd like t

My cp is a 9yo flyer on a large J4 team this season. She's the smallest on the team. They just got done with choreo camp. I will say that the choreographer automatically assumed she was just on the team because she is a fetus. He actually asked her if she could do RO 2 to a layout, when she is probably one of the top 3 tumblers on the team and has several specialty passes to a full.

While it may be several folks' opinions that it's more "impressive" with a taller flyer or some have the opinion that longer legs may look "better" in the air, it's can be offensive to the petite flyer when one assumes that they are only flying on a team because of their size. I'm assuming this is what the OP is saying.

No one likes to be judged unfairly. But it's good to have tough skin to be able to handle the unfair judging. Look at all the people whining about Cheer Perfection before they've even actually seen an episode and how it's going to "damage" the view of all-star cheer. LOL. In the whole scheme of things it doesn't really matter. No intelligent person I know believes everything they see on reality TV to be true reality, so does it really matter?

What I've learned from this board (and life in general) is that most people have strong opinions, they're not very open to others veiws, and they aren't changing their minds very often. You can't control how others think or feel you can only control your own ideas and emotions. it's best to just ignore it, and teach your children to be less judgmental, more empathetic and to have thick skin.

I'd like to shimmy this 100 times

 

[tdittmar]

I've noticed what seems to be a lot of flyer bashing on this board. I don't know if stems from resentment or what, but there seems to be unfair pressure on a flyer to be perfect in every way. I'm sure some bases would be offended if there were threads saying girls with big muscular thighs are THE best bases, hands down, and that skinnier girls just aren't as good. If you read the Cheer Pet Peeves thread, half the complaints are about flyers, and have a catty tone to them, IMO. God forbid they don't have perfect body positions, body control, body type, or even (gasp!) weigh more than their bases. There are several factors that go into choosing flyers and it's not simply because they are the most flexible or lightest ones on the team. I'm sorry if you can pull a straight spike and your flyer cannot. That was your coach's decision to have her fly. Take it up with your coach, but don't take it out on your flyer. I know this has been brought up ad nauseum, but yes, the flyer gets the kudos for a solid stunt and bears the brunt of shame when a stunt falls, especially during a competition. The fact is, while every person in a stunt group is important, flyers DO have an extra element of pressure/stress in a routine that the rest of the team doesn't. I have noticed that we tend to pick flyers apart from head to toe, looking for something to critique. If a flyer looks otherwise flawless, well it's only because she has fabulous bases keeping her up there. Can't we all just recognize that it's a perfect storm of awesomeness that makes a great team and while the roles may be different, everyone is equally important? I guess in a female dominated sport, that's not likely to happen.

I think the reason there are more complaints about flyers is that there are 4 times as many bases as there are flyers. Fortunately, our program does a good job of praising the group as a whole and realizes its a group effort.

 

[CEAisstronger]

Well a girl at my school who all stars too is on the shorter side (no criticism Im shorter than her) and she was a flyer on year then a base the next year on the school team. Then she flys on her Allstar team

 

[SparkleSpankies]

Fetus Flyers I feel got their name b/c you have a team of 16-18 year olds and then 2-3 flyers on the team that are obviously not in their teens and may be struggling to hit double digits in age.

I coach a high school team, my flyers are 2 12th graders, 1 10th grader, 1 9th grader and they are TINY for their age but when you look at their face obviously not in grade-school. There is not a thing wrong w/ a petite flyer when they are in an age category that is appropriate to the general eye.

Your daughter I am sure is a wonferful flyer

 

[ScottyB]

Well...if she remains petite and has great tumbling skill she will be a prime candidate for a collegiate coed team. Theres no need to get all in your feelings about something like this. Just encourage her to do the best she can do with what God gave her and YOLO and what not.

However I can personally testify that there is not much glory in being a petite adult...but whatever.

Coaches will be chomping at the bit to get her on their squad at the collegiate level. Tell her ignore the comments, work hard and her size will eventually come back as an advantage to her

 

[cheerisloving]

All my HS flyers are fetuses and they all are seniors. Like one of them got mistaken for being tweleve and she is one of the oldest in the school. But she has long legs and looks beautiful. But that's not to say small girls don't look good. Brooke Sparcio, isn't a fetus, but she is definitely on the petite side. And she is amazing. OA has some little girls but that hold there own against the bigger girls.

 

[CheerBank]

I think there is a big difference IMO between a fetal flyer and a petite flyer. Fetal flyers look and usually are significantly younger than the rest of the team and are being thrown around like rag dolls by their bigger bases. There is usually a big difference in their body control or lack of I should say when compared to older flyers on the same team. A petite flyer, while on the smaller side, is on par maturity wise with the rest of the team. Different gyms have different philosophies on why they choose their flyers. While I personally am not a fan of the flying fetus, as long as the fetus is within the legal age range for that team, so be it. They are doing nothing wrong. My biggest peeve with fetal flyers is that they usually do not want to be based by bases their own age once they have been based by the older, bigger girls.

 

[SparkleSpankies]

CheerBank, you put into words what I tried so hard to and you nailed it! KUDOS