All-Star Ice Buying Out Speed Athletics

[tumbleyoda]

What is the net gain in the number of "mega-gym" franchises in the last 3 years? I would think that number is around 15-20ish facilities nationally at most. (Several of those weren't even really breaking into new-for-them geographical areas.) Compared to the thousands of cheer gyms in the country, this doesn't seem like a huge number.

(granted - "easy for me to say")

But you always speak fairly, even if you disagree with the premise of the poster - which I (and others) respect greatly.

Once we could definitively determine what a mega gym is (the jury is still out on what that is or isn't) then we could come up with a definite number. We cant even agree on the number of athletes or if more than one location counts. Not even for competition purposes, for statistical purposes. Define that, and we can get a true count.

I just speak from conversations that I have had with several small/less know gym owners and coaches that I have spoken with over the years. Those tend to be the ones I know. And again I am not hating on the mega gyms for doing what they are doing, because it is a capitalistic society. Some have closed. Some are closing. Some are fighting this losing battle as they see it. I tell them all the same thing. The number of conversations I have had with gym owners in tears because they love their gym but cant keep losing kids to a mega/brand name gym is crushing. Either reinvent your product or perish, because I don't see it changing any time soon.I could list several right now about that are throwing in the towel because they can't fight anymore. Are there other factors involved. In some cases there are. But in all that I mention the introduction of a mega gym/name brand gym in their market has sucked the life and dollars out of the gym. (again not blaming the mega gym, just stating what has occurred) Perhaps someone will open up and take their place, but with the same challenges ahead, it may only be a matter of time before they too give in.

 

[uhhlyssa01]

What is the net gain in the number of "mega-gym" franchises in the last 3 years? I would think that number is around 15-20ish facilities nationally at most. (Several of those weren't even really breaking into new-for-them geographical areas.) Compared to the thousands of cheer gyms in the country, this doesn't seem like a huge number.

(granted - "easy for me to say")

Also doesn't seem like a large number in comparison to the gyms that completely closed their doors last year. To me, I would rather see a large gym purchase a small gym that is struggling than to see them shut down their business/livelihood entirely.

 

[BlueCat]

Also doesn't seem like a large number in comparison to the gyms that completely closed their doors last year. To me, I would rather see a large gym purchase a small gym that is struggling than to see them shut down their business/livelihood entirely.

I'm not sure that we can trust USASF to be forthcoming with the numbers or data, but I would be fascinated to see information about the number and size of gyms across the US. It SEEMS like we are shrinking a bit after several years of crazy growth, but there hasn't been a central source of that type of information. I hear of a lot of gyms closing, but I also see new programs at nearly every competition we go to. Hard to say.

FWIW - you would be shocked at how many calls we get to inquire about us "purchasing" gyms around the country. I don't know what the other "megas" are getting, but I would assume it is more than a few.

For all budding gym owners out there, you would be surprised at how profitable classes are compared to teams. For that matter, rare is the gym that makes money on their elite-level teams. Most lose money on Worlds teams. You can argue loss-leader, etc. but they rarely profit from them directly. Also, Worlds success on the floor can be a brutal, quality-of-life-crushing battle. Chasing globes need not be everyone's path to success. (again - "easy for me to say")

 

[tumbleyoda]

I'm not sure that we can trust USASF to be forthcoming with the numbers or data, but I would be fascinated to see information about the number and size of gyms across the US. It SEEMS like we are shrinking a bit after several years of crazy growth, but there hasn't been a central source of that type of information. I hear of a lot of gyms closing, but I also see new programs at nearly every competition we go to. Hard to say.

FWIW - you would be shocked at how many calls we get to inquire about us "purchasing" gyms around the country. I don't know what the other "megas" are getting, but I would assume it is more than a few.

For all budding gym owners out there, you would be surprised at how profitable classes are compared to teams. For that matter, rare is the gym that makes money on their elite-level teams. Most lose money on Worlds teams. You can argue loss-leader, etc. but they rarely profit from them directly. Also, Worlds success on the floor can be a brutal, quality-of-life-crushing battle. Chasing globes need not be everyone's path to success. (again - "easy for me to say")

I agree with everything here, especially the last paragraph. This is something else I stress to smaller gyms, yet sadly it falls on deaf ears at times. IMO it is because this is not something the industry highlights as important, so it isn't a major focus of many programs. You have to have people teaching classes that genuinely like to teach classes and see the long range worth of the classes, not just trying to pick up a few extra hours between coaching teams. Nothing worse than a coach going thru the motions teaching a class while they are looking at the teams on floor marking their routine or wishing they could be over there rather than teaching a tumbling class. (I say that as a class director and tumbling director. We have tumbling coaches that just teach tumbling - no coaching teams at all - because that is our focus and why we were hired, not to coach teams) Very few smaller gyms focus developing their class program as a program, instead of a mere supplement to the cheer teams. And they suffer for it. Having a strong class program is one of the best ways to insulate a gym against the ever fickle All Star market

 

[Payton Lewis]

Speaking of long dances...



BTW one of my favorite routines ever...

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Their basket technique is just.... AHHH!! I just wanted to watch them throw baskets over and over

 

[catlady]

Many small gyms used to only go to small local one day competitions and find a not too far in the distance 2 day to be their large end of season competition. Now, Youth to Senior, and every parent, seems to be consumed with getting a bid. Who has them? How many? Why aren't we going there? I've noticed the economic divide and parent drama increasing, and while many parents are clamoring for and can afford increased travel, many can not. For the small gym owner, the impact of this economic divide has to be huge and it isn't necessarily a reflection of their management skills, as much as, the direction All Star is being taken by the industry and its consumers.

 

[tumbleyoda]

Many small gyms used to only go to small local one day competitions and find a not too far in the distance 2 day to be their large end of season competition. Now, Youth to Senior, and every parent, seems to be consumed with getting a bid. Who has them? How many? Why aren't we going there? I've noticed the economic divide and parent drama increasing, and while many parents are clamoring for and can afford increased travel, many can not. For the small gym owner, the impact of this economic divide has to be huge and it isn't necessarily a reflection of their management skills, as much as, the direction All Star is being taken by the industry and its consumers.

Bingo! I am having this same conversation right now with a small gym owner.

 

[BlueCat]

Many small gyms used to only go to small local one day competitions and find a not too far in the distance 2 day to be their large end of season competition. Now, Youth to Senior, and every parent, seems to be consumed with getting a bid. Who has them? How many? Why aren't we going there? I've noticed the economic divide and parent drama increasing, and while many parents are clamoring for and can afford increased travel, many can not. For the small gym owner, the impact of this economic divide has to be huge and it isn't necessarily a reflection of their management skills, as much as, the direction All Star is being taken by the industry and its consumers.

Completely agree. Some of the parents of our L1-5R teams are now demanding we set up our season entirely around getting bids for specific end-of-year all level events. They imply that NOT devoting our season to chasing that particular bid is somehow a measure of how much we "care" about those athletes. Never mind putting any thought into the value/cost of those events, how much they eliminate any off-season, and whether they are good for the development of the athletes.

While we are at it, putting more and more of our industry's hard-earned money into the hands of Mouse is not particularly high on my priority list, thank you very much. Some families can afford it without a second thought, but some make huge sacrifices to get there and this takes away from the money they COULD be spending on classes, privates, or other things that directly benefit our industry.

Reminder: You don't HAVE to be competing to go to Orlando for a vacation. In fact, you get more bang for your vacation buck if you aren't there for a competition.

 

[cheermommaRN]

@BlueCat just won the internet.

I guess I'm in the minority but I prefer the gym think about the economics behind competitions and take the age/level into consideration before turning my pockets inside out.
Personally I think Summit is a big booty scam to get more money out of parents and gyms. There is no logical reason to drag kids youth age all over the southern US to get a bid to pay more money to go to Orlando. Every other competitive sport has an increasing commitment level...except cheer.
And anytime CA wants to open a Fort Worth gym I will gladly write a check every single month.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[cheermommaRN]

Their basket technique is just.... AHHH!! I just wanted to watch them throw baskets over and over

I think @ACEDAD cp Elmo is one of those baskets!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[ACEDAD]

I think @ACEDAD cp Elmo is one of those baskets!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Correct. She was the flyer front left. Not bad for a 14 year old!


**ACE: we're coming to your city!**

 

[oncecoolcoachnowmom]

I'm not sure that we can trust USASF to be forthcoming with the numbers or data, but I would be fascinated to see information about the number and size of gyms across the US. It SEEMS like we are shrinking a bit after several years of crazy growth, but there hasn't been a central source of that type of information. I hear of a lot of gyms closing, but I also see new programs at nearly every competition we go to. Hard to say.

FWIW - you would be shocked at how many calls we get to inquire about us "purchasing" gyms around the country. I don't know what the other "megas" are getting, but I would assume it is more than a few.

For all budding gym owners out there, you would be surprised at how profitable classes are compared to teams. For that matter, rare is the gym that makes money on their elite-level teams. Most lose money on Worlds teams. You can argue loss-leader, etc. but they rarely profit from them directly. Also, Worlds success on the floor can be a brutal, quality-of-life-crushing battle. Chasing globes need not be everyone's path to success. (again - "easy for me to say")

Yes. I have also found that in terms of team profitability, the largest amount of interest and dollars generated come from Minis, Tinys, and Level 1s.

You get a lot of "just trying it out" parents who bring Suzie in for like, half year Minis. She loves it, she becomes a full year Mini next year, then she enrolls in the Beginner Tumbling Class. You get the idea.

The "new to the sport" kids are where money is.

 

[Official OWECheer]

Many small gyms used to only go to small local one day competitions and find a not too far in the distance 2 day to be their large end of season competition. Now, Youth to Senior, and every parent, seems to be consumed with getting a bid. Who has them? How many? Why aren't we going there? I've noticed the economic divide and parent drama increasing, and while many parents are clamoring for and can afford increased travel, many can not. For the small gym owner, the impact of this economic divide has to be huge and it isn't necessarily a reflection of their management skills, as much as, the direction All Star is being taken by the industry and its consumers.

Completely agree. Some of the parents of our L1-5R teams are now demanding we set up our season entirely around getting bids for specific end-of-year all level events. They imply that NOT devoting our season to chasing that particular bid is somehow an indicator of how much we "care" about those athletes. Never mind putting any thought into the value/cost of those events, how much they eliminate any off-season, and whether they are good for the development of the athletes.

While we are at it, putting more and more of our industry's hard-earned money into the hands of Mouse is not particularly high on my priority list, thank you very much. Some families can afford it without a second thought, but some must make huge sacrifices to get themselves there and this takes away from the money that they COULD be spending on classes, privates, or other things that directly benefit our industry.

Reminder: You don't HAVE to be competing to go to Orlando for a vacation. In fact, you probably get more bang for your vacation buck if you aren't there for a competition.

@BlueCat just won the internet.

I guess I'm in the minority but I prefer the gym think about the economics behind competitions and take the age/level into consideration before turning my pockets inside out.
Personally I think Summit is a big booty scam to get more money out of parents and gyms. There is no logical reason to drag kids youth age all over the southern US to get a bid to pay more money to go to Orlando. Every other competitive sport has an increasing commitment level...except cheer.
And anytime CA wants to open a Fort Worth gym I will gladly write a check every single month.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yes. I have also found that in terms of team profitability, the largest amount of interest and dollars generated come from Minis, Tinys, and Level 1s.

You get a lot of "just trying it out" parents who bring Suzie in for like, half year Minis. She loves it, she becomes a full year Mini next year, then she enrolls in the Beginner Tumbling Class. You get the idea.

The "new to the sport" kids are where money is.

And THIS is why I love Fierceboard. Information like this, from people like this, can't be found anywhere else. Conditioning and tumbling classes would be an AMAZING investment for any small gym. LBH, many people see no point in those things because they believe that winning is more important than being strong enough to win (not just literally, but skill-wise as well). I would love to be able to feed a pool of well-conditioned, flexible kids into tumbling classes for them to be taught proper technique. Imagine feeding kids like THAT into a program! Imagine if every gym were to do that? Imagine the improvement in skill quality we would see!!! No more frog-legged back headsprings. No more poo poo, bent-legged jump with flexed feet. And we all know how strong tumbling aids athletes in all other aspects of cheer.

Who knows, good technique might actually become the standard.

 

[Just-a-Mom]

Reminder: You don't HAVE to be competing to go to Orlando for a vacation. In fact, you probably get more bang for your vacation buck if you aren't there for a competition.

This is the greatest thing I've ever seen.

 

[armycheermom]

Reminder: You don't HAVE to be competing to go to Orlando for a vacation. In fact, you probably get more bang for your vacation buck if you aren't there for a competition.

But,if you just go to Orlando on vacation like normal people,you can't prove to everyone how much more you love your kid! How much money spent on a child's cheer career is directly equivalent to how much you love them!