All-Star Crossovers Just To Get Paid

[NoOneSpecial]

I hear you but they could go with an at large bid, no? The team I know of that's doing it this year already had at larges for both teams. I'm actually really disgusted by the lack of moral compass shown when this question is raised. I'm thankful my daughter is at a gym that would never do this. The fact that so many blow at off as "not against the rules" is kind of gross. Fact of the matter is gyms are putting kids out there that they know will not be competing at Worlds and taking bids from real teams.

With an At Large Bid don't you have prelims in order to move to semi in some divisions?

 

[quitthedrama]

I agree. It is like sending someone else in to take your SATs for you because you know you can't score high enough to get into the college you want to go to.

It really is not the same thing, because the crossovers are not against the rules but taking the SAT for someone else is. I really don't think gyms would use crossovers between worlds teams if it was against the rules. I hate that gyms do it. I hate that gyms use World Champion athletes on their Summit teams - in fact that is worse to me, but some people may feel it is ok. Just because I don't agree with it and I don't like it, doesn't mean it is wrong. If the USASF says it is completely acceptable and the EPs allow it, then we can not blame the gyms.
I think I could name more gyms that use crossovers in both of these situations than don't. In fact, I don't think I could name more than 10 gyms that don't have any crossovers in either of the two scenarios.

 

[Mamarazzi]

I hear you but they could go with an at large bid, no? The team I know of that's doing it this year already had at larges for both teams. I'm actually really disgusted by the lack of moral compass shown when this question is raised. I'm thankful my daughter is at a gym that would never do this. The fact that so many blow at off as "not against the rules" is kind of gross. Fact of the matter is gyms are putting kids out there that they know will not be competing at Worlds and taking bids from real teams.

Sure they could. But what parent wants to pay the full cost if they don't HAVE to. And what owner doesn't want to say "All fifty-leven of our Worlds teams went to Worlds on Paid bids! See how awesome we are?"

 

[CheerDad18]

If they wanted to fix Worlds and Summit they could. Simply put 85% of the origianal team small who won the bid must compete at the event. On large teams make the number 9o to 95%. As far as Summit goes I believe they allow you to cross over on 3 teams, make that 2 and count Worlds as a performance. It's a simple fix but it won't happen because it costs EP $$$

 

[coach12]

No matter that there are no rules against it. I think it stinks and I lost respect for some big gyms doing it. Also stinks for the kids they are taking out of routines and replacing them with these "better" athletes.

 

[jennarap]

summit has a rule with only allowing 5 crossovers between a worlds team and a team at the summit.

 

[ijustpay]

Sure they could. But what parent wants to pay the full cost if they don't HAVE to. And what owner doesn't want to say "All fifty-leven of our Worlds teams went to Worlds on Paid bids! See how awesome we are?"

And back we go to the moral compass issue. This should not be an okay point of view when we are talking about working with kids. Gyms and coaches should want to do better for their athletes. 5 years from now no one is going to care about that kid's full paid bid...that kid's character and moral compass, well that is there to stay and is greatly influenced by the coaches/owners they spend so much of their lives with. Personally, I want more for my kid so yeah, I'll open up my wallet to send her to Worlds any day rather than teach her it's ok to be unethical if it isn't against the rules.

 

[ijustpay]

With an At Large Bid don't you have prelims in order to move to semi in some divisions?

Yeah, and? If you aren't good enough to make it out of prelims do you really deserve a full paid bid???

 

[notimeforthat]

Very proud to say our program has 6 worlds teams and some have paid bids while others have at large. The ones that have at larges certainly would have a great chance of getting paid if we allowed this crossover for cash policy.
Glad we have the policies we do. No such thing as a free lunch.

 

[retiredl5cheer]

Very proud to say our program has 6 worlds teams and some have paid bids while others have at large. The ones that have at larges certainly would have a great chance of getting paid if we allowed this crossover for cash policy.
Glad we have the policies we do. No such thing as a free lunch.

Your gym is incredibly well respected across the industry for reasons such as this one.

 

[SL&AM]

Very proud to say our program has 6 worlds teams and some have paid bids while others have at large. The ones that have at larges certainly would have a great chance of getting paid if we allowed this crossover for cash policy.
Glad we have the policies we do. No such thing as a free lunch.

I don't even know which gym you're at, but I applaud this.

 

[quitthedrama]

Ethics are a matter of opinion. Is it ok for 70% of a level 4 team to be made up of level 5 athletes just to win all season? Is it ok for a level 1 team to have 100% of their athletes able to stunt and tumble with level 4 skills just win all season? Go outside of cheerleading. Is it ok for a coach to use half of his Varsity starting line up to win a JV game? Some will say it is fine because it is not against the rules. Some will say it is unethical. Personally speaking, this is a competitive sport, which means you use every competitive advantage you can get within the rules to win. I can't see any of it being unethical if it is within the rules, but I 100% feel the rules are unfair.

 

[cheermomforever]

But they're actually making less, because an athlete crossing over pays less than a separate athlete competing only that one time.

I'd say the bigger issue (and harder to enforce and therefore not likely to ever stop) is that a lot of these athletes aren't rostered as crossovers, or even under their name.

Coach says, "Ooooh, this is such a good idea. I'm going to send 15 of my large senior girls to a comp with 5 other girls to get another paid - but the EP doesn't actually know who any of these kids are. Not like they need ID to compete. I'll make a roster of these other kids that want to get to worlds, and then we'll go get them a paid bid. That way when worlds comes, it looks like it's the same 20 kids that got the bid and I don't have to worry about the 10 substitution rule!"

Moral compass indeed. Not a thing I see a lot of in cheer.

(yes, there are parents that would go for this. Probably parents who don't know about the rostering and/or want to go to worlds on a paid not an at-large)

That is part of the problem! If the EP or USASF can't keep up on who actually competes for the bid and who actually goes to Worlds then they are not doing their job. Why are we paying the membership each year if it does not help in that issue.

 

[catlady]

If everything is ethical, why not just have your top level 5's compete for everything? Done. They can come home and just hand the lower levels their jacket and the gym can proudly put up their banners. No offense but, you can always find a loop hole and that doesn't mean it's right.

 

[BlueCat]

Ethics are a matter of opinion. Is it ok for 70% of a level 4 team to be made up of level 5 athletes just to win all season? Is it ok for a level 1 team to have 100% of their athletes able to stunt and tumble with level 4 skills just win all season? Go outside of cheerleading. Is it ok for a coach to use half of his Varsity starting line up to win a JV game? Some will say it is fine because it is not against the rules. Some will say it is unethical. Personally speaking, this is a competitive sport, which means you use every competitive advantage you can get within the rules to win. I can't see any of it being unethical if it is within the rules, but I 100% feel the rules are unfair.

You unplug the speaker cables while a competitor is performing, then your team yells the wrong counts at the team. No USASF rules broken. Ethical?

I grant that the team-stacking situation is more nuanced, but I do NOT believe it is automatically OK to do anything that doesn't break a rule.