All-Star Replacing Athletes With New Athletes...

oncecoolcoachnowmom said:

I just read the post on which someone said they saw a kid shoved out into the waiting area at a different program.

Listen. I am saved and I love Jesus.

But if anyone shoves my son out of anywhere, we are going to have a problem.

Not a "you'll be hearing from my lawyer" problem either.

A "you'd better call the police crazy Black lady who needs someone to hold her earrings" problem.

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Lets just say it was the week after not winning the expected NCA title. I told this story (that I witnessed firsthand) to a few friends that were going to tryout there. By mid year they were telling me about the verbal abuse on the team. I hope they are saving up for the therapy these kids are going to need when they finish the season. The worst part of it all is that too many athletes growing up in the sport will think that this is acceptable behavior by coaches. If a team full of parents and cheerleaders allows this to continue it must be in their best interest right?!

WinstonsGirl said:

I have issue with this, as I have seen solid team members kicked off their team to make way for tumblers 2 weeks before Worlds. These athletes were there all season, helped get the bid and there was no warning that their spots weren't guaranteed. I found that very unfair to those people who had worked hard all year and booked flights and such to Florida.

If you have a team that has stated from the beginning that anyone can be replaced, I'm more ok with it. But I also feel that someone has to not be pulling their weight to get pulled. Not showing up, injured, not pulling the skills they can easily do, etc. If it's just for the sake of Susie 1 has a full and Susie 2 doesn't, I'm still not happy with it.

I see it as go with who showed up at tryouts, not whoever feels they can walk into the gym whenever they feel like it cos they have higher skills. And I know that's not always the case, but I find there are a lot of kids who feel that certain skills give them the right to do what they want when they want, and more gyms are putting up with it too.

ETA - onecoolcoachnowmom put this much better than I did, in regards to how replacements could be made.

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I agree if child was placed on the team without a full had been there all season including when bid was won I feel as a parent that's unfair. Just my opinion unless child was told they needed a full by a certain date. And who wants a kid that left her /his old team high and dry ??

Also, if you are woman or man enough to pull a kid, you to be man/woman enough come TELL the child and parent.

Not have Polly Parent call.
Not have Polly Parent text.

Physically tell that person.

That is incredibly unprofessional.

You'd never send another coworker to fire a coach.

This is no different.

oncecoolcoachnowmom said:

Also, this is going to sound harsh (and I know this is not @justpeachy) but:

People often stay and turn a blid eye because the gym popularity or hierarchy is their LIFE.

They will not stand up to anything abusive because they enjoy the Parent Room Popularity.

Sometimes parents need to put kids first and stop hanging on to a gym because it's YOUR social outlet.

You have to want Suzy to be mentally healthy MORE than you want to be The Popular Mom in the Abusive All Stars Parent Area.

You have to want a healthy kid more than you want to be on the Abuse Athletics Mom Cruise because all your mom friends are going.

You have to care about Suzy more than you care about being on a first name text basis with That One Worlds Team Coach and having your daughter be invited to her daughter's sleepover.

Care about kids more than you care about being able to put "World Champ Mom" in your bio.

I read about a ton of social climbing in gyms and hear about it all the time. Sometimes you have to stop.

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I definitely agree with all of your comments and probably be that sidekick holding your earrings and ranting in the background...

Believe it or not, I encountered the opposite problem, my daughter is that quiet, hard working athlete that will refuse to tell me something that is emotionally or verbally abusive, because she is afraid of my reaction... I am that mother, Who hate for adults to mistreat any youngster and will speak up.. I hate people who sit back and do nothing, I guess, because of my upbringing, I can always imagine myself in the other person's shoes...

PS: Btw, I just realized @justpeachy what gym everybody were talking about, I did not look that closely at the picture...But you might be surprise the number of people that sit by silently, but switch gym because of your daughter's valiant struggle... (me, "raising hand on the side")

Nikki Moore said:

It doesn't happen much with CPs team but our Level 5 team gets yelled at a lot - because the coach just wants more and expects more out of them. However, I've never really noticed them singling one person out and talking about replacing them. When they've struggled with stuff, he either takes down the difficulty or tries something different that is easier for them. For tumbling, he has yelled at one guy for not landing his pass every time but all he said was they would take the pass out and have him do something he could land consistently. It lessens their chances of scoring high but kids aren't going to continue to do well if they aren't having any fun at all. Kids shouldn't be coddled but you can't yell and scream at the them w/o some positive words too.
In fact we do have a girl who busts her tumbling pass about 50% of the time and it's all mental and she's still doing it every comp. She's one of the few passes I watch to see how she does and everyone cheers when she lands it.

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I think with this thought our children are to believe that if we yell more we have higher expectations. I have seen coaches of extremely successful teams that do not yell and scream but also do not coddle the athletes. Using positive words from time to time does not cancel out the way some of these coaches are talking to the athletes. There are level 5 athletes on teams from age 8 on up.... they need punishment and positive reinforcement but most coaches don't even understand how to recognize when they are appropriate. Yelling all of the time translates into when I'm not yelling I don't really mean business.

oncecoolcoachnowmom said:

Also, if you are woman or man enough to pull a kid, you to be man/woman enough come TELL the child and parent.

Not have Polly Parent call.
Not have Polly Parent text.

Physically tell that person.

That is incredibly unprofessional.

You'd never send another coworker to fire a coach.

This is no different.

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This would be the third time my child was pulled from a team in this gym. In 5 years, I never gave a coach any reason to think that they couldn't have this conversation with me. And my daughter didn't either.

@justpeachy I feel for your child so deep. I'm in my early 20s but I too was one of those girls who wanted to please her coaches and was the 'good' kid who always felt slighted. I was the one who competed at a lower level and wasn't chosen to crossover to the higher level team.

My mom was like you. She's not confrontational but she's wild Mama Bear when agitated. The gym I was at used to be small, and I was one of the 'favorites' but for some reason these groups of girls who were connected to the owner, did not like me. They posted a video where you could hear them complaining about basing me--a novice flyer. My mom found out and wouldn't you know those ladies had to apologize to me. And not to mention those special flowers didn't even live up to their full cheer potential.

They made it to their high profile world teams (thanks to gym acquisitions) but couldn't even get into college to cheer on that level. And I did, for one of the best.

I say all of this to say there are so many things in this sport that can really break you, but your daughter is clearly talented, and I hope you let her know that she's going to be okay.

@cheerisloving I am so sorry you went through that. Man, this sport can be brutal! I'm glad your mama knew when to speak up.

Thank you for your encouraging words. The girl is doing better every day. She will be better for this experience.

I keep coming back here as the thoughts keep coming.

But I think another piece of the issue is:

There are people/coaches/owners who LOVE cheerleading but don't actually like children.

Like, you won rings at Daytona, won Worlds, can tell anyone exactly why their double sucks, but you do not actually like dealing with athletes and the emotions that come with being a 12-15 year old kid.

That is why a lot of this happens.

Awesome cheerleaders do not always awesome coaches make.

justpeachy said:

@cheerisloving I am so sorry you went through that. Man, this sport can be brutal! I'm glad your mama knew when to speak up.

Thank you for your encouraging words. The girl is doing better every day. She will be better for this experience.

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As I get older, I can totally feel that and attest to it. I think about what made 13 year old me cry and laugh about it now because this world is so much bigger than middle school politics and cheerleading.

oncecoolcoachnowmom said:

I keep coming back here as the thoughts keep coming.

But I think a lot of the issue is:

There are people/coaches/owners who LOVE cheerleading but don't actually like children.

Like, you won rings at Daytona, won Worlds, can tell anyone exactly why their double sucks, but you do not actually like dealing with athletes and the emotions that come with being a 12-15 year old kid.

That is why a lot of this happens.

Awesome cheerleaders do not awesome coaches make.

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It's like the Elaine Pascal quote from Twinkles. Coaches, especially of higher caliber athletes who are basically growing up in their gyms, are helping develop these kids. Yes, coaches are getting paid for a service but they are interacting with children who idolize them in many cases. I think about my coaches and how much I loved getting their approval because it made me feel good and like I was a step closing to being like them.

A 10 year old learning to be a level 5 athlete is not like the 18 year old on your college team that has never done a skill before. You can't treat them like a peer.

oncecoolcoachnowmom said:

I keep coming back here as the thoughts keep coming.

But I think a lot of the issue is:

There are people/coaches/owners who LOVE cheerleading but don't actually like children.

Like, you won rings at Daytona, won Worlds, can tell anyone exactly why their double sucks, but you do not actually like dealing with athletes and the emotions that come with being a 12-15 year old kid.

That is why a lot of this happens.

Awesome cheerleaders do not awesome coaches make.

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You have hit part of the issue. It goes deeper though.

Most coaches love to coach kids that are already good. Already have the skills they need. Don't have accompanying difficulties in learning styles which I have posted about on here a long time ago with the disconnect between the teaching styles of the coach vs the learning style of the student. Don't want to deal with students with OCD, ADD, ADHD, Autism spectrum, etc. when those kids are in every gym in the World. They want to hit a button and go. Call a skill and do it. Plug and play. They don't understand body fatigue and how it affects performance. The drive to win supplants all common sense and any act in pursuit of that is deemed acceptable in their eyes. Because after all who does not want to win?

Many newer coaches don't appreciate the process and journey but only the end result because that is what they need for the routine. A teacher however savors the learning process and adapting their style to fit the student in front of them. They realize it is not a one size fits all process. Nor are they quick to be so dismissive as some of the posters have related their experience. They view it as a challenge with taking not a problem that needs to be eliminated.

I am not saying all are like this. But after over 30 years coaching children, plus working with them in Head Start, religious organizations and other areas, I can say confidently too many are like this. The win at all costs mentality and practice has ruined too many in this industry and in society in general.

tumbleyoda said:

You have hit part of the issue. It goes deeper though.

Most coaches love to coach kids that are already good. Already have the skills they need. Don't have accompanying difficulties in learning styles which I have posted about on here a long time ago with the disconnect between the teaching styles of the coach vs the learning style of the student. Don't want to deal with students with OCD, ADD, ADHD, Autism spectrum, etc. when those kids are in every gym in the World. They want to hit a button and go. Call a skill and do it. Plug and play. They don't understand body fatigue and how it affects performance. The drive to win supplants all common sense and any act in pursuit of that is deemed acceptable in their eyes. Because after all who does not want to win?

Many newer coaches don't appreciate the process and journey but only the end result because that is what they need for the routine. A teacher however savors the learning process and adapting their style to fit the student in front of them. They realize it is not a one size fits all process. Nor are they quick to be so dismissive as some of the posters have related their experience. They view it as a challenge with taking not a problem that needs to be eliminated.

I am not saying all are like this. But after over 30 years coaching children, plus working with them in Head Start, religious organizations and other areas, I can say confidently too many are like this.

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Yes. I was a teacher then school counselor before I was a coach. I can't like this enough.

Your approach has to be differentiated to fit the kids.

You coached college kids before you started coaching all stars? That's all well and good.

But you can't coach Youth 2 Becky who has never cheered a day in her life the same way you'd coach Billy Bob who spent 2 seasons at Kentucky before joining your IOC6 team.

Just like I can't present a group lesson on sexual assault to my Lunch Bunch Group of 5th graders. They're not there yet.

tumbleyoda said:

You have hit part of the issue. It goes deeper though.

Most coaches love to coach kids that are already good. Already have the skills they need. Don't have accompanying difficulties in learning styles which I have posted about on here a long time ago with the disconnect between the teaching styles of the coach vs the learning style of the student. Don't want to deal with students with OCD, ADD, ADHD, Autism spectrum, etc. when those kids are in every gym in the World. They want to hit a button and go. Call a skill and do it. Plug and play. They don't understand body fatigue and how it affects performance. The drive to win supplants all common sense and any act in pursuit of that is deemed acceptable in their eyes. Because after all who does not want to win?
.

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That's why we see kids who are naturally gifted favored over the ones who struggle. It's easier to love Susie who got the elite sequences the first time around than Sally who had to try a little harder. And as an athlete, especially in the 10-14 bracket that's tough. Imagine going to practice and being so afraid to mess up because your coach will think less of you. That pressure to be elite all the time is draining. They don't want to do the work of actually coaching and helping kids get better, they want ready made athletes that they can use to make their crazy routines reality.

I've been volunteer coaching for a while now and I honestly love when I come home from my breaks and seeing the girls who couldn't fly a full up working on 1.5 ups. Girls who were blocking on their tucks throwing them during free throws on the basketball courts. Girls that come up to me and are like "Omg I did what you told me to do and it works" whether it be cheer or school related.

When I own a gym (hopefully if I go to college but probably not because I'm not smart at all) I'm going to try to be as laid back as possible, make sure the athletes aren't snobby/cocky, and make sure they don't cause drama at practice or online.

cheerisloving said:

They don't want to do the work of actually coaching and helping kids get better, they want ready made athletes that they can use to make their crazy routines reality.

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I've noticed this too in some coaches. Spend less time yelling & threatening and more time coaching.