All-Star A Night With The Popes.

[StarshipTrooper]

LOL at that last part. Can't wait.

You're right I don't agree but I do appreciate your rational and direct answer. At least it makes sense (not from a "Oh that makes it ok" sense but from a "Oh I see why they may have done that" sense).

I have made no statement to suggest that it should be made ok. I have said from the first there were 2 wrongs that made a wrong and that is the "Call me Ishmael".

 

[SmileyRyleigh]

So i'm trying to clear this up in my head... The Y5 and the YR5 both "competed" at CheerSport, correct? Did the YR5 receive jackets and a banner even though they were exobitioning?

 

[callmecoach]

I've been reading and reading (and reading and reading...) because I wanted to make sure I knew enough about the situation before posting an opinion. It took awhile to piece together the information from both this thread and the original thread (much of which was either cryptic or biased or both).

First and foremost, the personal attacks on Courtney were wrong and completely out of line. NO ONE deserves to be attacked like that. It was a disgusting action and SHAME ON WHOEVER DID IT. I have nothing more to say there.

Now to the actual CheerSport situation. I agree 100% that it was wrong, rules were broken, it was not necessary to use that athlete four times, and all involved should have and probably did know better. At the same time, from what I know of Courtney Smith Pope, she is a pioneer in this industry who runs an outstanding program and does whatever she can to advance this sport and make it legitimate. I do not believe that she was attempting to "cheat." As was stated, the athlete's name was on all four rosters. She approached CheerSport and told them as much. These are not the actions of someone who is trying to put her teams at an unfair advantage and keep it under wraps. Hindsight is 20/20 and I am sure at this point she wishes she had simply put an alternate in for the fourth team, but after being given the OK from CheerSport she probably thought it was harmless at the time especially since this child wanted to compete with YE Kernersville before going to Dallas (as stated by the athlete's father) and they were competing alone in the division. I don't think she was thinking of unfairly winning an extra banner or title. CEA has plenty of them.

The real question in my mind is why did CheerSport feel it necessary to have them compete rather than perform as exhibition? After all, isn't it an EP's job to ensure that their event enforces the rules? They have absolutely no excuse for what happened especially seeing as Courtney specifically told them she had an athlete rostered four times and requested to perform one team as exhibition. This only further proves the point that EP's are out to advance themselves and then want to leave it to USASF to be the bad guy. If it had been a lesser known gym I'm sure CheerSport would have granted the switch to exhibition and all would have been fine. They threw CEA under the bus here in my opinion and now don't have to feel any of the heat since CEA, as always, is getting such a huge reaction from all sides.

To wrap it up, I hope the witch hunt will stop. To imply that Courtney is underhanded and conniving as many have (in so many words) is ridiculous. USASF handed down the punishment that they deemed appropriate and Courtney willingly took it. Someone stated earlier and I completely agree that while $1000 may be a drop in the bucket for CEA, this is setting a precedent and the punishment needs to be realistically applicable to any program (large or small) who does this in the future without putting them out of business.

While this has not been good for CEA, I hope that the attention this situation has gotten will be good in the long run for cheer as it will make gym owners and EP's more aware of the rule itself and the importance of double checking to ensure that the rule is followed. If we are going to continue to advance this industry there needs to be accountability on the part of all parties involved and hopefully this situation will be a step in the right direction.

 

[tumbleyoda]

Not the spirit of this thread. I made my feelings clear. I was condemning the lynching of a couple on social media. The rest I have no problem with discussing, as stated early in the thread. Interestingly, even though I had the childs teams mixed up, the spirit of the discussion goes back to my claim both sides were wrong and the problem occured at registration. I'm sure we'll hear more. Carry on, Kingston likes the views.

Discussing the rules, loopholes, favors for friends that could adversely affect other teams placements, and even as you have stated honest mistakes can go a long way in making sure that all programs get the same treatment. That has been my longstanding gripe since I became a part of this industry. Again if everything that has been stated is true both CSP and CS are at fault. Period. Yet we have not heard from CS and that makes me wonder what other "dead cat" may be out on the line.

 

[Just-a-Mom]

So i'm trying to clear this up in my head... The Y5 and the YR5 both "competed" at CheerSport, correct? Did the YR5 receive jackets and a banner even though they were exobitioning?

Yes. They didn't exhibition. They competed in a division by themselves and were awarded the title National Champions, with banner and jackets.

 

[StarshipTrooper]

Discussing the rules, loopholes, favors for friends that could adversely affect other teams placements, and even as you have stated honest mistakes can go a long way in making sure that all programs get the same treatment. That has been my longstanding gripe since I became a part of this industry. Again if everything that has been stated is true both CSP and CS are at fault. Period. Yet we have not heard from CS and that makes me wonder what other "dead cat" may be out on the line.

You'll have to wait for the paperback version.

 

[FierceandFearless]

kingston, I feel like now we are starting loop around and make the same points over and over. Could you please lock this thread now? I feel like we've all given our own perspectives and opinions on this, and I don't see or feel that there's really any logical reason to keep this thread up if all that's left to do is continue to read and review the same things we've been discussing for the past 3 days now, even if it's in different wording... If CS or USASF or CSP decides to say something on this matter, either on the boards or anywhere else, I'm certain we will all hear about it. CSP has been through enough the past several days, I'm sure she's learned from her mistake, she paid the fine, so until the USASF decides to take action in punishing cheersport, if they even decide to do that at all, I think that we should just all give this a rest and move on. What's done is done. Thanks.

 

[allstarLoVEcheer]

Just because you hit at one competition doesn't 100% mean that you'll hit at the next. I get the whole building confidence thing but this team did not have to "exhibition." So hypothetically if I were to take a team to say NCA to "exhibition" to prepare them for the next big competition they had and knew they would receive jackets regardless of what they did on the floor even though I knew I was breaking a rule then it's okay because they are now more confident for the next competition... I just think this whole situation could of been easily avoided.

 

[Underestimated]

This thread is done with it should be locked..
Since Courtney can't speak for her self here.. its pointless to have the cea dads do it for her(by the dads choice).. its just getting no where... LET IT GO!!!!!!!!! close this thread.. if there is a day when some type of letter is publicly put out by the popes and Kevin then talk about until then were just playing a game of duck duck goose and running in circles!

 

[FierceandFearless]

This thread is done with it should be locked..
Since Courtney can't speak for her self here.. its pointless to have the cea dads do it for her(by the dads choice).. its just getting no where... LET IT GO!!!!!!!!! close this thread.. if there is a day when some type of letter is publicly put out by the popes and Kevin then talk about until then were just playing a game of duck duck goose and running in circles!

Thank you. I agree.

 

[SarahS]

Is it true that CEA doesn't have to pay crossover fees at certain/many/most EP events?

(Please don't read any ill intent into the question. I'm honestly interested if this is the case. It has been stated as if a fact previously in this thread and I'm just verifying whether or not it is a fact.)

 

[12stepCheermom]

kingston, I feel like now we are starting loop around and make the same points over and over. Could you please lock this thread now? I feel like we've all given our own perspectives and opinions on this, and I don't see or feel that there's really any logical reason to keep this thread up if all that's left to do is continue to read and review the same things we've been discussing for the past 3 days now, even if it's in different wording... If CS or USASF or CSP decides to say something on this matter, either on the boards or anywhere else, I'm certain we will all hear about it. CSP has been through enough the past several days, I'm sure she's learned from her mistake, she paid the fine, so until the USASF decides to take action in punishing cheersport, if they even decide to do that at all, I think that we should just all give this a rest and move on. What's done is done. Thanks.

Can I get an amen?! I hoped the board would've reached that collective realization several pages ago. There is nothing new to discuss. There are no answers that will be satisfactory to everyone and now it's all degenerated into one big circular discussion that reminds me much of a toilet bowl.

Learn from the situation, apply it to the new year and make something positive out of a bad situation.

It's seriously time to move on.

 

[FierceandFearless]

Can I get an amen?! I hoped the board would've reached that collective realization several pages ago. There is nothing new to discuss. There are no answers that will be satisfactory to everyone and now it's all degenerated into one big circular discussion that reminds me much of a toilet bowl.

Learn from the situation, apply it to the new year and make something positive out of a bad situation.

It's seriously time to move on.

It had crossed my mind a few pages ago, but then I kept getting all of these notifications from the thread so I read those and that delayed my train of thought by several minutes and then I saw cheercoachSMS's post and figured that was a wonderful note to end the thread on. May I just say, very very very beautifully put cheercoachSMS

ETA that I had hoped that someone else would speak up saying that they wanted it locked too, and once that didn't happen (like I had figured) I knew I was definitely going to request that it be locked.

 

[MyGirlCheers]

The only part about #2 is if that was the team that was alone in the division and they competed illegal skills then doesn't that just mean a lower score? I do not think illegal skills disqualifies you.

I agree, but since the EP chose to have them compete (not exhibition) in the YR5 division, the illegal portions should have been reflected on the score sheet. If not, it gives the appearance of impropriety in the judging. Personally, of the choices the EP could have made, I think they should have been exhibition or Y5 rather than just allowing the deductions and a guaranteed win. Otherwise, why doesn't Miss Suzy's Janky Allstars have their S4 team compete in the S2 division since no team is registered in that division. Yes, there are other S4 teams registered, but we'll compete in the S2 division and throw our level 4 routine anyway. We're guaranteed to win whether we throw the level 4 routine or not even if we get deductions. I can't imagine anyone one would find that acceptable, so why is it okay in this instance?

From the Cheersport website:

By giving the coach the opportunity to choose the level of their athletes,
the coach accepts the responsibility for knowing the guidelines, rules
and restrictions. Penalties will be assessed when these guidelines are
not followed.

• If a team performs a skill that is outside of the LevelPlay division guidelines for their division, that team will be assessed a 10 point penalty for the first offense and 20 points for the same offense for the second time.
• If a team receives a warning on day one and does the same skill on day two they may receive another warning or a 20 point penalty.We recommend changing skills that receive warnings on day one.
• If a team performs a skill outside of the LevelPlay division guidelines for their division and it is missed on day one but seen on day two a 10 point penalty will be assessed on day two.
• If a team changes their routine from day one to day two and performs a skill outside of the LevelPlay division guidelines for their division a 20 point penalty will be assessed on day two.

At Nationals all LevelPlay Safety Infractions are video reviewed and agreed
upon by three different LevelPlay Judges.

So three different judges had to agree to ignore all the infractions? Wow.

 

[King]

We are entering a loop. Please start a new thread discussion what rules and actions should be taken in the future so there are precedents that everyone should follow. That is probably the best use of this energy. TBH while I know everyone is reading (and I do mean everyone) discussion on here is just discussion. Get involved and talk to your USASF rep if you want things to change (and by change I mean positive change moving forward).