All-Star A Second Look At Ncata

[munchkinmom]

Ok, so I really did not like the changes to the all-star experience made by STUNT & NCATA. Looking at all the issues the past few months, it's made me think again...

What are some of our biggest gripes right now? Athlete registration, progression and proper training for coaches. What does USAG have down pat? Athlete registration, progression and proper training for coaches. What if...we make 2 parts to all-star? Compulsory & "optionals" if you will. Partner with USAG, modify the NCATA setup to make it work for 4-18+ not just college kids, register the athletes, register and train the coaches. NCATA-style meets are held everywhere, locally. This provides athlete leveling and is where promotion through the levels is determined. Outfits are simple "uniform style", like what NCATA has now. No makeup, no bows, no glitz. These are your "compulsories". You can still compete your team's routine as part of the meet, just like NCATA teams do now. There is no way that this can be the end of it though, because it would require an insane amount of time for the # of teams that exist in a typical competition to get through all of this.

So then we move on to the "optionals" aspect of this proposal. I propose this as one and the other, not either/or. Traditional all-star still exists. Same comps, same EPs, glitz, glam, custom uniforms, bows, & sass if the team wants - but now since the athletes are already playing by whatever level rules are create for the NCATA-style comp by USAG (that the insurance companies know and respect), the EPs are under insurance pressure to only compete athletes that belong where they are leveled. If an EP were to allow an athlete to compete up or down too far it could cause injuries (tumbling/flying/basing skills that they have proved they are not ready for on the high end, basing causing an inexperienced flier to go much higher than they should on a toss with true lower level girls on the low end).

Writing this instead of making dinner, so please excuse any confusion. Please feel free to discuss, rip it apart, chew it up, & put it back together and see if any of this is feasible.

 

[CoachDerek]

I judge NCATA and I can say I love what I see at the meets. The execution has to be there otherwise you can get killed on deductions. You see hard skills, but the execution has to be there. I recommend everyone come see a meet.

 

[ztaprincess]

I don't think a lot of the athletes would like going from what they are doing now to the style of NCATA. That is a drastic change, in my opinion more drastic then the rules that were just made.

 

[munchkinmom]

I don't think a lot of the athletes would like going from what they are doing now to the style of NCATA. That is a drastic change, in my opinion more drastic then the rules that were just made.

That's exactly why I don't want to take away what they have now. I'm just thinking that we should have local small NCATA style meets in addition to our current competitions. This is where they prove what they've got as individuals, where they prove they're safe as a team, and then they go show the world what they've got as a performance at cheersport or indy or worlds or whatever

 

[cheermommaRN]

I think what we'll end up seeing is gymnastics facilities starting A&T teams under the USAG. Then you will have two options when it comes to competitive cheer.
NCATA is pretty amazing though. The teammates stand right next to the floor and cheer the athletes on that are competing. The coaches are right on the floor also. We are planning on going to the Nationals being held @ Baylor in April. It's definitely a different experience but I think that type of "cheer" has a better chance at Olympic status than what we have going on.
I love All Star but with the issues as of late I don't know if we would stay if suddenly there was an A&T program offered for younger ages

 

[imrichhowboutu]

I judge NCATA and I can say I love what I see at the meets. The execution has to be there otherwise you can get killed on deductions. You see hard skills, but the execution has to be there. I recommend everyone come see a meet.

How did you get into that? I would love to start.

 

[CoachDerek]

How did you get into that? I would love to start.

Rich I don't have your info anymore. Can you send me your email and phone number in a pm. We are looking for some new judges I believe.

 

[Giselle]

I honestly don't think many All-Star cheerleaders would enjoy NCATA. I have been to watch a meet before and while I was there I was counting down the minutes to go home because it was so dragged out, there was no performance or anything truly exciting. Yeah the skills were amazingly executed, but in my opinion it just wasn't exciting to watch until they did the full out routine. It didn't have the thrill that most all star cheerleaders are used to; therefore, I don't believe it would catch on.

 

[AScheer]

That's exactly why I don't want to take away what they have now. I'm just thinking that we should have local small NCATA style meets in addition to our current competitions. This is where they prove what they've got as individuals, where they prove they're safe as a team, and then they go show the world what they've got as a performance at cheersport or indy or worlds or whatever

How much per season then are we talking if we still do all the same comps we have but then add say 3 - 5 or more local NCATA meets? Then we also have to have a completely different uniform for those meets. Isn't a big issue the cost of our sport in this economy? You easily add another $1000 a season on. Then you also have to have multiple routines. I personally don't care for the NCATA meets at all. Just not a fan.

 

[munchkinmom]

How much per season then are we talking if we still do all the same comps we have but then add say 3 - 5 or more local NCATA meets? Then we also have to have a completely different uniform for those meets. Isn't a big issue the cost of our sport in this economy? You easily add another $1000 a season on. Then you also have to have multiple routines. I personally don't care for the NCATA meets at all. Just not a fan.

Completely different uniform isn't that bad. Fitted tshirt and compression/spandex shorts from Target, probably not $25. If your gym wants more customized, spend an extra couple dollars and get double use as practice outfits. These don't have to be snazzy, they really shouldn't be. Small comps now run about $50 an athlete, so an extra $150-$250 a year at that price, but in reality these could be held at high schools or even hosted by larger all star gyms and probably run at less than that cost. If your gym does a ton of comps, you could cut one of the less popular ones if the parents are worried about cost. Your gym only needs to go to as many as you feel your athletes need to go to for leveling purposes. If you are 100% sure all of your athletes are going to hit the skills they need for their level that season in one comp, you only attend the one. If you intend on them moving up, or plan on some failing, or like the format, the gym attends more. You have one routine, you just don't amp up the theatrics for the NCATA routines.

As I said, I'm not a fan either - to me this proposal would be like eating your spinach at dinner, but I'm less a fan of them slowly chipping away what's allowed because there is no structure in place to keep athletes safe (among other issues related to no structure). Some want cheer to be a sport. Now a lot of people are very concerned that ultimately the activity they love is run by a single business that has the capability (whether or not they use it) of drastically changing what they've come to know. There are many issues to all star that many people want changed, and USASF is likely not to bring about the change needed and may not be able to because of the conflict of interest that is Varsity.

 

[yojaehs]

I honestly don't think many All-Star cheerleaders would enjoy NCATA. I have been to watch a meet before and while I was there I was counting down the minutes to go home because it was so dragged out, there was no performance or anything truly exciting. Yeah the skills were amazingly executed, but in my opinion it just wasn't exciting to watch until they did the full out routine. It didn't have the thrill that most all star cheerleaders are used to; therefore, I don't believe it would catch on.

I disagree. I have two athletes that have been recruited to NCATA teams an they are so excited (both of which are on Worlds teams). They are treated as athletes not as show pieces. They are preparing for a SPORT, not an activity. I think NCATA is awesome, still very new and different which will make many reserved on getting behind this and supporting them but I am a HUGE fan. If nothing more than seeing first hand how amazing my athletes have been treated. Both of these girls have been all-star cheerleaders for 10+ years and are top notch all around kids. I look forward to seeing it grow!

 

[Giselle]

I disagree. I have two athletes that have been recruited to NCATA teams an they are so excited (both of which are on Worlds teams). They are treated as athletes not as show pieces. They are preparing for a SPORT, not an activity. I think NCATA is awesome, still very new and different which will make many reserved on getting behind this and supporting them but I am a HUGE fan. If nothing more than seeing first hand how amazing my athletes have been treated. Both of these girls have been all-star cheerleaders for 10+ years and are top notch all around kids. I look forward to seeing it grow!

I didn't say ALL, I said many cheerleaders. And what difference does it make that they're on Worlds teams? They're on a Worlds team and they do like it, I am also on a Worlds team and I don't like it. It's simply a difference of opinion. One of my best friends is on an NCATA team and she tells me all the time how they get treated with the same respect as the football players which is fantastic, but that does not change my opinion. I still find it boring to watch. Sorry.

 

[yojaehs]

I didn't say ALL, I said many cheerleaders. And what difference does it make that they're on Worlds teams? They're on a Worlds team and they do like it, I am also on a Worlds team and I don't like it. It's simply a difference of opinion. One of my best friends is on an NCATA team and she tells me all the time how they get treated with the same respect as the football players which is fantastic, but that does not change my opinion. I still find it boring to watch. Sorry.

I used "World's Teams" just to bc those are the athletes that I have that are involved, does it matter, no, does it give a little more insight, yes. No offense towards "Non-worlds athletes". I don't think the NCATA or STUNT would be a good fit for high school aged athletes. I think the NCATA isn't trying to be "cheer" they are trying to be their own thing. Recruiting mainly from cheerleading (currently) but they are also looking to gymnasts and beyond. My opinion is that athletes looking to be treated respectively by their college and the fight for "sport" NCATA is on the right track. They are still in their 2nd season so I think they will grow and eventually be more entertaining.

 

[wcdad]

That's exactly why I don't want to take away what they have now. I'm just thinking that we should have local small NCATA style meets in addition to our current competitions. This is where they prove what they've got as individuals, where they prove they're safe as a team, and then they go show the world what they've got as a performance at cheersport or indy or worlds or whatever

By NCATA rules you could not do AllStar if you are doing NCATA.

 

[ztaprincess]

By NCATA rules you could not do AllStar if you are doing NCATA.

Yeah people are forgetting that with something like NCATA in place it limits what you can do outside of NCATA. You would no be able to do allstar, which is an argument people have with how it will hurt some of the bigger college teams that have athletes who do allstar now.

I know that they meant to just implement the NCATA style, but it would almost be better to say STUNT because at this time STUNT athletes have more freedom.
If you want to form some kind of style meet for allstar I suggest starting from scratch and making it your own. I know that many love the way the STUNT and NCATA routines work, but honestly I have heard more people think it is boring then how exciting it is. They are very slow paced which is so different from what we are use to with allstar routines.
I take Louisville as an example (or you could use Maryland with NCATA). People love what Louisville all girl puts on the bandshell for NCA, but how many people loved watching them at their STUNT meet last year the following day (other then the routine at the end)?

So many people are concerned with turning allstar cheer into a "sport", but what are people expecting to happen once this happens? Scholarships? Don't see that happening. Endorsments? If the NCAA eventually makes college cheer a recognized sport then you risk not being able to get a scholarship. Respect? Nascar is considered a sport and most who are not nascar fans laugh and make fun of it so that probably won't change with cheer.
I understand fighting for college cheer to become a sport because it can help out athletes who can't afford school, but I can't figure out what the benefit of it in allstar would be.