All-Star Adding A Medium Division To Levels 1-4

[Cheer_Explosion_Coach]

What is everyone's thoughts one having small, medium, large divisions for levels 1-4... I know some pretty small gyms who (even with crossovers) can only get 12 kids on a team. Is 12 competing against 20 more fair than 20 competing against 21?

I'm a big advocate for more teams competing per division at local competitions, but 8 kids against 20 is a big stretch as is 21 against 36 and some big nationals split divisions after like 10 or 15 teams anyway.

Could something like 5-16 cheerleaders as small, 17-24 cheerleaders as medium, and 25-32 (or 36) cheerleaders as large be possible?

I think the large division would be smaller than small and medium, but as we continue to grow as a sport(ish) would breaking down divisions make sense?

I know some people will hate this idea and some would love it, but I thought I'd get everyone's reasons for your opinion.

For the record I'm FOR it because I have many friends with gyms who have 9 or 10 kids on some of their teams AND I'm AGAINST it because I like competing against 8 or above local teams, but in our area very few division get anywhere close.


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[glitterdiva]

we all ready have to many divisions why add more

 

[Just-a-Mom]

I get what you're saying but I swear if they add so much as ONE MORE division instead of getting rid of some I'm putting my kids in soccer.

 

[dawgshow]

I agree. There are too many divisions as it is. When CP competes, we all hate going up against only one or even worse no teams. Sorry but I think that all of these added divisions make it feel less like competitive cheer and more like everyone-is-a-winner cheer. If we want that atmosphere, we'll do rec.

 

[KikiD22]

What is everyone's thoughts one having small, medium, large divisions for levels 1-4... I know some pretty small gyms who (even with crossovers) can only get 12 kids on a team. Is 12 competing against 20 more fair than 20 competing against 21?

I'm a big advocate for more teams competing per division at local competitions, but 8 kids against 20 is a big stretch as is 21 against 36 and some big nationals split divisions after like 10 or 15 teams anyway.

Could something like 5-16 cheerleaders as small, 17-24 cheerleaders as medium, and 25-32 (or 36) cheerleaders as large be possible?

I think the large division would be smaller than small and medium, but as we continue to grow as a sport(ish) would breaking down divisions make sense?

I know some people will hate this idea and some would love it, but I thought I'd get everyone's reasons for your opinion.

For the record I'm FOR it because I have many friends with gyms who have 9 or 10 kids on some of their teams AND I'm AGAINST it because I like competing against 8 or above local teams, but in our area very few division get anywhere close.


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No joke, I was actually thinking about this just yesterday. Probably because I'm still having panic attacks about the Mini 1 division at UCA next weekend, LOL!

While I personally would love to see Sm, Med, and Lg divisions in Levels 1-4 myself, I just don't think it's a viable option.

1) Like everyone said above, I think there are already too many divisions as it is. I think the only time we'd ever get the opportunity to see a medium division even come into play would be at big nationals (Jamfest, Cheersport, NCA, etc.). In levels 1-4, at most local-to-medium sized competitions, you see small and large combined anyways. Very rarely have I even seen small and large at local competitions, and that tends to be only in the divisions that are traditionally huge to begin with, like Youth 2, Junior 2, and Senior 3.

2) I think, just using the breakdown for team sizes you used above as an example, that too many teams would still fall into the Small or Large categories. It may be because of the current breakdown of Small and Large teams, but I really don't see too many teams that fall into that 17-24 category. Most of the small teams I've seen are truly small, 12-15 athletes, and large teams have been huge, 28 or more kids.

 

[SheCheers]

i think i'd be fine with a split if the division already had 10-12+ teams in it. Like mini 1 or something, BUT at the same time, i'm not sure size matters *that* much. (no pun intended). I sort of like how NCA Nationals does it for levels 1-4 by only breaking it up if there are a ton in the division. Make an A and a B, with B being the smaller half.

 

[ellen495]

i think i'd be fine with a split if the division already had 10-12+ teams in it. Like mini 1 or something, BUT at the same time, i'm not sure size matters *that* much. (no pun intended). I sort of like how NCA Nationals does it for levels 1-4 by only breaking it up if there are a ton in the division. Make an A and a B, with B being the smaller half.

I agree. I hate going to comps where there's no competition. I spend hours curling hair (and being yelled at for doing it wrong) just to see an expo. May as well be invited to the gym to watch practice. I do like the NCA has the A and B for the smaller gyms - that seems fair.

 

[King]

What if all divisions but level 5 were set at 25 people. No small or large?

 

[SarahS]

What if all divisions but level 5 were set at 25 people. No small or large?

Yes, please. And in my perfect world, the universal score sheet would include ways to measure proportionality, so smaller teams wouldn't be penalized for doing fewer skills than larger teams (and, similarly, larger teams wouldn't be rewarded for doing more skills than smaller teams).

 

[Hi! It's me!]

What if all divisions but level 5 were set at 25 people. No small or large?

NOOOOOOOO! Can you imagine how many large gyms this would create problems for? You can't hurt one type of gym while helping another. I say leave it alone. At large comps its a nonissue and at small, well thats the joy of small comps, you never know what you are going to get. And sorry but not every kid makes a level 5 so we need to think of programs as a whole, not level 5 and then everybody else. But that is a topic for a whole different discussion.

 

[njallday]

What if all divisions but level 5 were set at 25 people. No small or large?

I love that idea, and for the majority of gyms it would work. Then I think about the big gyms like Cheer Athletics. If they potentially had to cut 5 to 7 athletes off their teams, where would they go.. since there are only so many teams that they would be able to make.

This would benefit the whole though, and for that reason I support it.

 

[King]

NOOOOOOOO! Can you imagine how many large gyms this would create problems for? You can't hurt one type of gym while helping another. I say leave it alone. At large comps its a nonissue and at small, well thats the joy of small comps, you never know what you are going to get. And sorry but not every kid makes a level 5 so we need to think of programs as a whole, not level 5 and then everybody else. But that is a topic for a whole different discussion.

Was just an idea. At 25 people per team means you would have set and known ratios, would speed up judging, would not affect level 5 (as the level 5 would be left alone) and would guarentee every division at every competition would have more competition.

 

[12stepCheermom]

I don't know that it would matter anyway. When there aren't enough teams you get combined division anywy. My daughter was a small youth 3 last year and ALWAYS competed against teams of 36 because (Outside of cheersport and spirit of hope) there were never enough teams just to split to large and small. one of our competitions this year even combined co-ed and all girl because there were enough teams to split.

i think cheersport does a good job splitting their division (when they have 4 divisions of small senior 3 by numbers to try and get them in the range here with what you're talking about, but i think adding another division as a whole, really wouldn't end up mattering for most competitions because they'd be combined just like they are right now anyway.

 

[CoachTamara]

I might be the minority, but I love it. I think it would increase competition. Small gyms would feel like they could attend bigger competitions, and would come out of the hiding of local high school comps. I have a junior 3 with 15 and we are getting killed by teams of 25+. We are seeing more large teams at competitions than small. At a nationals in Chicago, we were the only small team and got lumped in with 6 other large teams. We hit, but even on our best day we can't come close to putting up the numbers they are. You can tell me it should be fair because of ratios, but it's not. I think it would also eliminate the need for stacking teams. We don't want a large team with 21, so they stack them with crossovers. If you put true level kids on each team, it seems like there would be more teams. I clump kids to make teams close to 20, which I wouldn't do if there were smaller divisions.

 

[BlueCat]

What if all divisions but level 5 were set at 25 people. No small or large?

What I would LOVE would be to see some numbers for how many teams are in each current division, how many events they attend, and how many are on each team. That is the data that you really need to make intelligent decisions about the direction we need to go with divisions.