All-Star Amazing Level 2 Teams?

[Cheer_Explosion_Coach]

i was talking in reference to your blog about it more than the post. I am very much against teams sandbagging to win. in our gym we emphasis working your way to the top- not just getting placed there. I am pointing out that there are times when having crossovers makes a big difference for the kids involved and can benefit small gyms. Instead of these youth 1 girls being moved onto a Junior 2 where they were left behind, they are on a Youth 1 where they are very successful this year.

I also have had a team of 5, but if i have 4 level 1 kids, and i can add 4 crossovers to give me two stunt groups and some options for a pyramid- i'll take it.

Even if you will face 20 level 2 kids on a youth 1 team all year?

 

[TwistersPride]

Even if you will face 20 level 2 kids on a youth 1 team all year?

i think there is a difference between having a team that has a crazy number of higher level athlete vs building a team and then using a few crossovers to help fill in what is needed.

my reply isn't even really in response to the sandbagging questions, but more to the comment that crossovers hurt small gyms. it's too general of a comment and it's not true in all cases.

 

[TheUltimateFan]

So, what is the next step? Will this discussion take it anywhere?
Obviously the conversations that take place on here that are beneficial to the sport usually end up making their way to the vote, and I really think this is one of them. The medium division conversation started here, and I think this is probably the most important issue this year that we have come across. So, like I said, what's next? I see conversations about the things that need to take place (credentialing, registration, etc), but I'm talking about the elimination of sandbagging, or even crossovers all together. Could this even become a possible option? What impact would it have to eliminate crossovers all together? Or, instead of the current limit of 3 teams, maybe 3 crossovers per team. This way injuries are fine, even a few injuries, but not excessive. Especially a small team, I cannot see needing more than this. Thoughts?
I just want to move forward with this, especially since I just realized my youth 1 gets to compete against a stacked team this weekend. Yes, I saw your senior level 4 kids come down to youth 1 to beat us. THANKS, you guys are a class act.

There is a discussion that was well underway in the 'Sandbagging' thread. It paused during NCA. I am certain it will continue. I am actually doing a little side research this week on external contracting of the processing of different types of IDs - cost and availability of services - and how complicated that would be.

There are a lot of great ideas and dialogue in that thread, worth reading. It started here, earlier in the thread, so if anyone really wants to get involved, it's helpful to read that first so people don't keep throwing out the same challenges and options that are already addressed. I should have looked for the page before I posted. let me see if I can find it before my edit window times out here...

Starts on Page 11 in this thread.

 

[TheUltimateFan]

R U Serious About This - or not?

 

[Cheer_Explosion_Coach]

I

i think there is a difference between having a team that has a crazy number of higher level athlete vs building a team and then using a few crossovers to help fill in what is needed.

my reply isn't even really in response to the sandbagging questions, but more to the comment that crossovers hurt small gyms. it's too general of a comment and it's not true in all cases.

You are right and I agree. If you look at the positives, like the ones you've stated then crossovers seem like a good thing for small gyms; however, if you weigh the good with the bad and how people can use them to gain a competitive edge, then i fell like it does more harm than good. If you allow for a team to have a few crossovers then you will have teams that have a crazy number of them.

The article and my thoughts are that in the macro view of how unregulated crossovers are in general. IMO if you weigh out the pros / cons of the issue, the cons out shadow the pros. You may not think so. In my experience, this has been the case.

Are you ok with a large gym team adding level 4/5 athletes to a small level 3 team to create a large level 3 and win a CHEERSPORT Nationals Jacket? These are all just crossovers. If you allow them in your case, do you still have to allow them in the case I stated above?

 

[TwistersPride]

I

You are right and I agree. If you look at the positives, like the ones you've stated then crossovers seem like a good thing for small gyms; however, if you weigh the good with the bad and how people can use them to gain a competitive edge, then i fell like it does more harm than good. If you allow for a team to have a few crossovers then you will have teams that have a crazy number of them.

The article and my thoughts are that in the macro view of how unregulated crossovers are in general. IMO if you weigh out the pros / cons of the issue, the cons out shadow the pros. You may not think so. In my experience, this has been the case.

Are you ok with a large gym team adding level 4/5 athletes to a small level 3 team to create a large level 3 and win a CHEERSPORT Nationals Jacket? These are all just crossovers. If you allow them in your case, do you still have to allow them in the case I stated above?

i have ready thru this whole thread, and the sandbagging thread, and i still don't know what the right answer is. Is there a way to regulate ethics in coaching?

 

[Rudags]

i have ready thru this whole thread, and the sandbagging thread, and i still don't know what the right answer is. Is there a way to regulate ethics in coaching?

Please let me know when someone regulates that... That would be FANTASTIC!

 

[Cheer_Explosion_Coach]

If more people thought like us, then our free market economy would regulate it. BUT since many upon many parents have the mindset "It's all about the jacket" parents continue to allow their CP's to be put on these lower level teams. And instead of scooping their kids up and taking them to a place that has character and integrity, they tend to leave their kids at the gym that keeps winning. Even if they are winning unethically.

 

[TheUltimateFan]

i have ready thru this whole thread, and the sandbagging thread, and i still don't know what the right answer is. Is there a way to regulate ethics in coaching?

There must be, since other sports do it (maybe not perfectly, but certainly better than what we do today). We just need to find the right way to do it for cheerleading.

I don't think we will ever find a perfect answer. But we can get it close and let the industry and the athletes close any remaining gaps. Whistle-blowing is clearly not out of favor, as evidenced by this thread. While you still have more people that care about the integrity of the sport than care about winning at any cost, coaches like you will come out on top.

 

[5-6-7-8]

I also still like the idea of putting the division on the jackets.

 

[Cheer_Explosion_Coach]

I also still like the idea of putting the division on the jackets.

Great everyone's event registration fee just went up to $1,000 a cheerleader just so the EP's can afford to monogram some jackets. hahaha. Jk. I actually like that Idea. People who sandbag have pride issue. A level 1 senior CHEERSPORT jacket might not be so appealing to a level 5 athlete.

 

[TheUltimateFan]

I also still like the idea of putting the division on the jackets.

This was one of the best ideas I saw come out of that discussion. Was it you who posted this? What level 4-5 cheerleader wants to be wandering around Jamfest SN/Cheersport/NCA/Worlds with a jacket that says 'Level 2 Champion'? Love it.

 

[5-6-7-8]

This was one of the best ideas I saw come out of that discussion. Was it you who posted this? What level 4-5 cheerleader wants to be wandering around NCA with a jacket that says 'Level 2 Champion'? Love it.

I can't remember who said it, but it wasn't me. (I wish I had thought of it though.).

 

[CrazyCheerMomof1]

That girl must not have a CLUE who SOT is! Even if they're a stacked team I'd definitely be scared by just that name alone!

Did you watch this division at all? They didn't seem scared and the dropped a stunt that y'all wished upon them. Thank god that little girl wasn't hurt. (well minus I'm sure her heart feeling she let her team down). I think being a lossy winner is worse then a sore loser. Don't judge what you clearly don't know for fact! I does come back around tenfold.

 

[MomOf2ThatsMe]

I've said it before and I will say it again- I don't care is a team is 100% crossovers, all I care is about is what level the crossovers come from. Perfect example: Would anybody have been outraged if Rockstar had used mostly level 1,2, and a couple of 3's on their J2 team? Not at all. People would have most likely been applauding the athletes and coaching staff for being able to put a team together in seven weeks that would even be remotely competitive at CS and NCA. Granted their chances of winning would have been lower, but I still think that just the thought that they did it "for the experience!" would have given more people positive feelings about the situation.