All-Star Athlete/parent Intimidation

[mamabear]

You're probably from a mega gym?

I understand your perspective, too, but at an open gym, it's much easier for an athlete to get injured in ten seconds or to pick up bad habits than it is for she or he to break through a mental block which can sometimes take months and usually has nothing to do with the instructor.

Definitely not from a mega gym.
I have seen many kids who succeed in their goals by switching instructors within their gym, or going elsewhere to work on a skill. It is not an affront to their regular coaches, but sometimes someone new will phrase something or demonstrate it differently and the kid has an aha moment. Sometimes, a child will excel without their teammates and team coaches looking on as they try something new. The sooner gyms realize that the kid is not betraying them by practicing elsewhere, the better the athlete will become.




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[Cheerfan1234]

She's not.

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with anything you've said, but I do have a question. You said if you were a director, you wouldn't necessarily allow your athletes to tumble elsewhere. Would you allow athletes from other gyms to come tumble at yours?

Yes and that's because they wouldn't be one of my athletes and I wouldn't have time, heart, and soul invested into them. What their coaches allow them to do is their coaches' business. It sounds hypocritical, but it's the truth. I also wouldn't allow my athletes to walk around a competition with their cell phones hanging out of their skirts, but I wouldn't be able to tell an athlete from another gym to put it away if she was she/he was doing it. Now, If I had a GENUINE, respectful professional working relationship or friendship with a coach from another gym who doesn't allow this sort of thing, then maybe a phone call to him or her would be in order just to give a heads up that one of their athletes was at my gym.

 

[Helen uk uni cheer]

Definitely not from a mega gym.
I have seen many kids who succeed in their goals by switching instructors within their gym, or going elsewhere to work on a skill. It is not an affront to their regular coaches, but sometimes someone new will phrase something or demonstrate it differently and the kid has an aha moment. Sometimes, a child will excel without their teammates and team coaches looking on as they try something new. The sooner gyms realize that the kid is not betraying them by practicing elsewhere, the better the athlete will become.




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I agree with everything you said. Not all athletes respond to the same coaching style. I currently at a gym where if we tumble its free time which I find hard as I like structure like at my old team we used to to tumble lines and then go to different stations. I am hoping once I can get a job I can find an open gym to suit me

 

[mamabear]

Now, If I had a GENUINE, respectful professional working relationship or friendship with a coach from another gym who doesn't allow this sort of thing, then maybe a phone call to him or her would be in order just to give a heads up that one of their athletes was at my gym.

I really wish that it didn't have to be like this.. I follow the rules, but it seems counterintuitive and paranoid to me.





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[TheDivineCheerYaYaSecret]

@Cheerfan1234 I was trying to reply to your post but it was doing something weird.

Okay I'm not trying to cause an uproar I'm genuinely interested in your point of view. I know the typed word can be difficult to show the true nuance of what is being said so I don't want a misunderstanding.

Isn't the 'time, heart, and soul invested in them" a part of the service they are paying for? An owner/coach isn't donating those things to them. So if they are paying for those things why would it make a difference if they went somewhere else to tumble or whatever if they aren't looking to change gyms?

Also what would be the reasoning for calling another gym to tell them one of their athletes was tumbling at your gym regardless of your relationship with the other gym?

 

[Cheerfan1234]

@Cheerfan1234 I was trying to reply to your post but it was doing something weird.

Okay I'm not trying to cause an uproar I'm genuinely interested in your point of view. I know the typed word can be difficult to show the true nuance of what is being said so I don't want a misunderstanding.

Isn't the 'time, heart, and soul invested in them" a part of the service they are paying for? An owner/coach isn't donating those things to them. So if they are paying for those things why would it make a difference if they went somewhere else to tumble or whatever if they aren't looking to change gyms?

Also what would be the reasoning for calling another gym to tell them one of their athletes was tumbling at your gym regardless of your relationship with the other gym?

No worries at all You're not causing an uproar by being interested in a different point of view or even disagreeing with it. I can totally respect different points of view and appreciate when people share theirs (in a respectful way) when they disagree.

I know of a few circumstances in NJ where a coach has called another coach to tell them that one of their athletes has tried out for one of their teams, probably to avoid being labeled as a recruiter by a friend or a respected colleague. You're probably right though..If an athlete from another gym came to to tumble at the gym where I belong, if I worked there, I probably wouldn't call. It doesn't mean that I should change my opinion on how I would feel about my athletes tumbling and stunting at other gyms if I had control over those things. NJ has a lot of great programs that produce winning teams at all levels, but from what Ive learned from observing other gyms, having great coaches and winning teams sometimes still isn't enough to maintain some of those athletes.

 

[oncecoolcoachnowmom]

If you're providing quality services, another gym could fly them into tumbling on a private jet with 50 pairs of complimentary Nike Pros and it legitimately would just be tumbling and you needn't worry about them leaving.

You have to be secure in your program. Pulling kids from teams and harrassing their parents over tumbling somewhere else is the equivalent of insecure boyfriend breaking up with his girlfriend for saying hello to a male friend in the mall.

 

[klynn64]

I completely agree with almost everything you've written except these few lines. Some athletes will leave their gym in a heartbeat if they're not placed on the team they feel they're entitled to be on or if they want to be on a team that might win NCA or Worlds, and they have every right to do so. But many times when this happens, it's not because the athlete was unhappy or because she/he wasn't receiving quality training to begin with. Parents and coaches from mega gyms with 500-2000 athletes and multiple locations might have a harder time understanding the firm rules that coaches from smaller gyms implement. We live in a brand name culture. We are drawn to the most popular brands before we even consider if they're the best fit for us. I'm guilty, too. For instance, when I go sneaker shopping, I know exactly what brand I'm getting before I even look around. I don't care if there are five other brands that are just as good but maybe a bit less popular. I want what everyone else is wearing and I won't compromise. It's a status symbol. You think Adidas, Reebok and New Balance feels threatened by Nike? You bet they do. So if you provide a good service, what is there to fear you ask? Fear people like me who value a logo over anything else, and we're everywhere. We're not always drawn to something because it's a quality product for us; sometimes we just like the way it looks on everyone else.

Tumbling/Stunting at other gyms -- If I were a gym director who puts countless hours and money into training my athletes the way I think is best, I personally would not allow them to attend other open gyms if I began to notice that my training was coming undone because so-and-so from this gym told them to "do it this way." That's not paranoia; that's protection. And if they came back to me in a boot/sling/cast because they weren't being spotted correctly or because they were allowed to throw a skill I would never allow, all bets would be off.

Disclaimer: Despite my perspective, I am still appalled by some coaches' actions. No one should be removed from a team for taking a picture with an athlete from another gym, and no one should be intimidated to stay where they don't want to be.

Mega gyms aren't exempt from an athlete shopping around. We belong to a so called Mega gym and we have athletes show up at tryouts for multiple gyms in the area and then go with whichever gym puts them on the highest level team. Those athletes usually get what they've earned, a position on a higher level team that doesn't have a successful season. The next year they return and accept the team they are offered..

Before we joined our current Mega gym we belonged to a very small gym for five years. That gym was so small that one year we had just six athletes on our cheer team. The same six athletes made up our dance team as well. If one athlete had left the gym our entire season would have halted. There is a lot to be said for belonging to a smaller gym. Winning is not always one of those things. But they have a lot to offer that the Mega gym can't. Despite what it would mean for the gym if an athlete left, we had none of the ridiculous restrictions mentioned here. And though there was a Mega gym just down the road, no athlete defected.

I recognize what the small gym has at stake. But to impose such restrictions is very short sighted. The gyms that do so are driving athletes away not keeping them. Teenagers are social gadflies. And what about the Worlds team that removed the athlete due to a picture, just who did they really punish ? They punished themselves and the remaining athletes on the team as much as they punished the offender. Everyone loses in that scenario.

If an athlete chooses to leave a gym, let them leave. If you are doing your job well they will be back. If you are doing your job and they don't return, your gym wasn't what they were looking for. You don't want them there if they don't want to be there. That just breeds negativity amongst the masses. Small or large gym, no athlete wants to spend their time unhappy in a negative threatening environment.

 

[NJ Coach]

I have always felt (and this is truly just my opinion) that by creating restrictions/rules about visiting/tumbling other gyms, fear mongering about other programs and any other tactics people use to keep people in their gym only increases the risk of athletes wanting to see what all the fuss is about and doing it behind your back. I can't even count how many times I've known athletes to leave their program and go to the big bad gym their gym never stops talking about.

Like I said, my program has no restrictions about our kids tumbling elsewhere. Anyone, regardless of their gym, is welcome to come and tumble with us. We've had many kids from gyms all over come tumble with us. I have no idea what their gym policy is, nor do I care honestly. They're on their own time.

@Cheerfan1234 is correct about NJ gyms and tryouts. If there is a personal relationship between coaches, we usually let each other know if their kids are at tryouts. I've never done it because I don't want to be known as a recruiter, but because there's a mutual respect there.

 

[Pebbles49]

I have to admit, I decided to remove my daughter from her old gym because of the culture of athlete/parent intimidations ... I heard about the gym we are at now by other parents at the old gym, but would not have ventured out if I was not given ultimatums, told who we can associate with at competitions and told not to visit other gyms (especially, we were told to cut ties with my cp's gymnastics tumbling instructor, but denied private instructions at her old gym... So knowing my personality, I extremely hate with a passion, people who think they have dominion over me and I paid these people too, I visited the new gym twice and decided to extricate myself from this craziness and have never looked back..AMEN!

PS: Tbh, I still do not understand how a gym can intimidate athletes or parents, but what I do noticed, too many of us are willing to give over our power to these insecure gyms, owners and coaches...

 

[Cheerfan1234]

I have to admit, I decided to remove my daughter from her old gym because of the culture of athlete/parent intimidations ... I heard about the gym we are at now by other parents at the old gym, but would not have ventured out if I was not given ultimatums, told who we can associate with at competitions and told not to visit other gyms (especially, we were told to cut ties with my cp's gymnastics tumbling instructor, but denied private instructions at her old gym... So knowing my personality, I extremely hate with a passion people who think they have dominion over me and I paid these people too, I visited the new gym twice and decided to extricate myself from this craziness and have never looked back..AMEN!

But you've alluded in past posts that you're now involved in a culture where there are a lot of promises of fast-tracking to certain teams that often times don't become reality ("dreams deferred"), and that many people on your daughter's team quit when they're not placed where they think they belong or after they age out of a certain level. That's says a lot about that gym's culture, too, and it's not necessarily one that many would want their kids involved with, either. It's funny..many parents from that gym have told me their kids aren't allowed to associate with athletes from the gym I belong to at competitions, either. I've never been told I can't. It's probably just one of those ridiculous, unspoken rules that a parent made up and turned into urban legend, lol.

Anyways, since you're now a product of being able to tumble wherever you want whenever you want, I'm curious. Has your daughter gained many new tumbling skills?

 

[Pebbles49]

But you've alluded in past posts that you're now involved in a culture where there are a lot of promises of fast-tracking to certain teams that often times don't become reality ("dreams deferred"), and that many people on your daughter's team quit when they're not placed where they think they belong or after they age out of a certain level. That's says a lot about that gym's culture, too, and it's not necessarily one that many would want their kids involved with, either. It' funny..many parents from that gym have told me their kids aren't allowed to associate with athletes from the gym I belong to at competitions, either. I've never been told I can't. It's probably just one of those ridiculous, unspoken rules that a parent made up and turned into urban legend, lol.

Anyways, since you're now a product of being able to tumble wherever you want whenever you want, I'm curious. Has your daughter gained many new tumbling skills?

Never alluded at all to athletes quitting if they are not placed on certain teams, frankly, I really do not know why athletes decide to leave, but I learned many do stay, even if they are not placed on certain teams . In the Dream Deferred thread, I was wondering about athletes who after so many years decide to leave a sport during an integral times and I had these lingering questions because my daughter was 11 and was reaching that integral age between Youth and Junior divisions... So, again I heard as a new member about a team tracking system but I did not speak with absolutes because as I stated, I was a new member...
However, I can honestly speak with a certainty the two years I been at my new gym home, I have never been told who and whom we can associate with and have absolutely been encouraged to have friends all over and during privates or open gyms, the athletes can wear anything... If anything, I think the association between gyms may be an urban myth, because my daughter and I spent time at 2 day competitions with other teams, she has taken pictures, traded shirts, etc...with other athletes from other gyms with no problems or repercussions .
As far as my daughter regaining skills lost, she regained many of her tumbling skills, but I have stopped her private instructions, mainly because I do not want her to get injured and plus, she is most needed in the routine for back spotting, stunting and dancing, which are more important for her team and the scoresheet...

 

[MaineStar234]

FWIW: I was in AC for Spirit Cheer this year to cheer on some little kids from the gym I cheered at who are now at ECE. I saw multiple parties of World Cup and CJA athletes and parents intermingling. So clearly whether these gyms have this rule or not, it isn't being enforced. I also witnessed WC kids walking around the competition with SJS and Jersey Allstars kids. However, what I didn't see was a coach/parent/athlete from any program telling anyone they needed to stop talking to the people from other gyms...


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[SL&AM]

Oh this thread is a hot mess---not the posters, but the behavior of some of the coaches. I don't care if you work with my CP from the time she is 6 until she is 16, she's not yours---she's mine. You didn't go through labor, you certainly didn't push her 10 lb booty out, and you didn't deal with every single night of hours on end screaming to even let her make it to the age of 1. I appreciate the work coaches put in---I do, I did sports and I know what loyalty is. However, if you prohibit my child from doing something I view as good sportsmanship...ie, banning her from relationships with other gym members or not allowing her to attend camps and open gyms elsewhere if it fits our needs better at that time, then I'll cut ya loose. It's my money, it's my child, and while I wouldn't necessarily say you should feel privileged to get the $ or her time, you can't just assume dibs on her either. I prefer gyms that breed good sportsmanship and a positive environment---if it's not your gym, I guarantee I can find it somewhere in my particular state no matter how long I have to drive to find it.

CP was part of a program who lost a child to a neighboring program because she was offered a higher level team. That turned out to be a joke by the time they competed and they've yet to bring home 1st---this mother left to get those 1st place trophies while CP's old team took home a National Champ title. In the same breathe, CP also went to that gym over the summer to attend classes her gym didn't offer---her coaches knew and didn't care. She learned a lot there, and I appreciate the time they took teaching her, but she wasn't going to cheer there. We've since moved and CP isn't part of a mega gym yet not a small gym either. It's kinda in the middle and so far I don't have any complaints. Next year she'll be on a full season team and I'm sure my opinions may change, but I know what I will and what I won't put up with as a mother---at the end of the day, I'm raising a child who happens to be a cheerleader; not a cheerleader who will go through life without learning how to be a good, well rounded person. If a coach doesn't appreciate my philosophy; oh well.

And we've been in a position where we've been recruited before---it was awkward, but I took it as a compliment. I'm also not a SM's who jumps at the chance of bigger and better; so I guess I let it roll off without thinking much of it.

 

[klynn64]

I have to admit, I decided to remove my daughter from her old gym because of the culture of athlete/parent intimidations ... I heard about the gym we are at now by other parents at the old gym, but would not have ventured out if I was not given ultimatums, told who we can associate with at competitions and told not to visit other gyms (especially, we were told to cut ties with my cp's gymnastics tumbling instructor, but denied private instructions at her old gym... So knowing my personality, I extremely hate with a passion, people who think they have dominion over me and I paid these people too, I visited the new gym twice and decided to extricate myself from this craziness and have never looked back..AMEN!

PS: Tbh, I still do not understand how a gym can intimidate athletes or parents, but what I do noticed, too many of us are willing to give over our power to these insecure gyms, owners and coaches...

All the winning in the world wouldn't make it worthwhile to remain at this gym. Shame on them for treating athletes like that. I hope the rest of the prisoners make it out alive with limbs intact.