All-Star Coed Stunting Saga...

[yojaehs]

Let me rephrase since I didn't make it clear enough for you..l.fetus flyers without level 5 skill who need to be taught as apposed to average size girls who have been flying for years.

Let me clarify my post, I pick the BEST kid for the situation, tall, short, small, whatever, I don't care, I want the child that is the BEST.

 

[0riginal]

If the routine is set up right and the formations even it out then a mixture of big and little flyers won't look that awkward. Really if you think about it this is going to push those girls who aren't the standard little coed flyers to work harder to earn their spot because if they plan on going to any of the top schools that have a coed team they will have to work that hard to make the team.

Agreed, I love both as long as they work hard.

The only thing for me is, tiny girls at college level are much different than 12 year olds. Everyone has the ability to be taught how to fly (to a certain extent), but body control just comes with flying experience and most 12 year olds do not look like 17 year olds in the air. Personally, I would much rather see a tall girl that has good body control than a 90 lb girl that can't hold her own in the stunt. I think that is even more awkward than having a bunch of different sized flyers.

 

[sltAL]

I just wanted so make a sad observation regarding the new CoEd stunting requirements for level 5 teams...to max out your score sheet, the judges want to see "real" CoEd stunts...ok, fine but on the flipside did anyone ever think of the downside..for example, now coaches will be taking the "fetus fliers" that not many people like to see on senior teams..just had tryouts and some of our true level 5 athletes might not make the team...some great fliers who might be considered too big to coed will be forced to base or not even be considered for the team....some of the smaller boys with unbelievable tumbling will be replaced with bigger, stronger boys who can stunt. I did notice a little difference this year at worlds....I'm sure the 12-13 season it will even be more evident.....I'm curious to everyone's thoughts, pro or con.

You are probably seeing a lot more of these small girls make an appearance because, as the sport has progressed, so has the tumbling and stunting abilities of these young kids. There weren't as many 12-year-olds on senior Worlds eligible teams in years past because there weren’t that many 12-year-olds who could tumble and stunt at that level.

Things are different now. As the sport becomes more competitive and grows, these young ones are acquiring elite tumbling and stunting skills that rightfully qualify them to be placed on a senior 5 team when they turn 12. I'm sure there are some itty bitty girls who move up without the skills, but any video or performance I've watched lately shows a good many of these little girls banging out doubles, trick tumbling, standing, and having amazing flexibility. If she's light and easy to put up, then that's just another bonus. I don't think you can blame the coaches for taking advantage of that or the athletes for accepting the positions. You have to either change the age/weight limit, or accept that everyone is following the rules.

Going forward with the new push for more guy/girl stunts, it may end up being more about the boys, than the girls. It would be great to have 18, muscled-up, college size guys on your allstar team, but we all know that's hard to make happen. I don't think most programs will have the luxury of replacing the smaller boys with bigger guys who can stunt. Most gyms will try to use any boy they can get on the team and pray they have enough to even go medium or large. A lot of these boys are going to be young and small themselves, so they're going to need flyers they can hold up. Until this sport reaches a point where coaches have a surplus of guys to pick and choose from, there may be a need for smaller girls to help some of these smaller boys out as we transition to more coed stunting.

 

[AndyT_T]

In the cheer world, guys have it easier, so why are the girls being punished for being tall? Guys can hit up the weight room more. If you switch a guy's flyer from a 120 lb girl to a 90 lb girl, they're going to love you as a coach, but they're not going to have to work as hard. I would like to believe that part of the reason they've made this change is because they want to see people challenged and gain strength and new skills.

Um.. In the cheer world, the boys on the team are expected to have the best tumbling, strongest stunts, and highest basket. The only part of the routine where theyre not expected to be the best on the team is dance..

 

[CaptainoftheCheerocracy]

It isn't prejudice on the part of coaches, it's the laws of physics. It's not like cheer coaches got together and decided what would be the most best way to arrange the forces of nature to make stunting easier with short girls. It is what it is.

NOTE: We LOVE tall on our teams. It makes back spots dramatically better because of the leverage/physics involved. "Amazons" are as rare as tiny flyers (and often more valuable). We love tall, we love short & strong bases, we love tiny & flexible flyers, we love "normal" sized sides. There is basically a perfect fit for nearly any healthy body type.

Thank you!!! At 15 years old I was 5'1", under 100 lbs and a flyer...by the time I turned 16 I went through a MAJOR growth spurt and was suddenly 5'9" and 125 lbs. That was not easy, but that didn't make me like cheerleading any less. I turned into the most valuable backspot on the team and that was by far my favorite stunting position. It doesn't get all the glory with the audience, but wouldn't you rather have the people you know and love (your teammates) recognize you more than your audience, who more often than not, who NOTHING about our sport. I much preferred hearing a flyer say that they want me backspotting whenever they are trying new stunts or harder stunts. They knew they would be safe, and that is what made backspotting special to me.

 

[WyldWon]

You are probably seeing a lot more of these small girls make an appearance because, as the sport has progressed, so has the tumbling and stunting abilities of these young kids. There weren't as many 12-year-olds on senior Worlds eligible teams in years past because there weren’t that many 12-year-olds who could tumble and stunt at that level.

Things are different now. As the sport becomes more competitive and grows, these young ones are acquiring elite tumbling and stunting skills that rightfully qualify them to be placed on a senior 5 team when they turn 12. I'm sure there are some itty bitty girls who move up without the skills, but any video or performance I've watched lately shows a good many of these little girls banging out doubles, trick tumbling, standing, and having amazing flexibility. If she's light and easy to put up, then that's just another bonus. I don't think you can blame the coaches for taking advantage of that or the athletes for accepting the positions. You have to either change the age/weight limit, or accept that everyone is following the rules.

Going forward with the new push for more guy/girl stunts, it may end up being more about the boys, than the girls. It would be great to have 18, muscled-up, college size guys on your allstar team, but we all know that's hard to make happen. I don't think most programs will have the luxury of replacing the smaller boys with bigger guys who can stunt. Most gyms will try to use any boy they can get on the team and pray they have enough to even go medium or large. A lot of these boys are going to be young and small themselves, so they're going to need flyers they can hold up. Until this sport reaches a point where coaches have a surplus of guys to pick and choose from, there may be a need for smaller girls to help some of these smaller boys out as we transition to more coed stunting.

 

[WyldWon]

I wasn't talking about 12 year old who possess the level 5 skills...I am referring to small flyers who are brought up and trained level 5 for the sole purpose of coed stunting while the larger flyers are either taught to base or not put on the team...I am totally for putting kids on who have all the skills, trust me, my daughter was 12 and on senior 5 but she had the skills...I am seeing itty bits coming on teams with little skills and being taught....to each is own, I am just giving my opinion as to what I like to see.

 

[ztaprincess]

If they can be taught the skills and can hit their stuff solid in the air then I don't see a problem with it. They will probably learn eventually so they might as well get an early start. With Varsity's new 75%=100% then if they go to mostly varsity competitions then if they have little to no tumbling skills then it isn't going to hurt the team.

 

[0riginal]

Um.. In the cheer world, the boys on the team are expected to have the best tumbling, strongest stunts, and highest basket. The only part of the routine where theyre not expected to be the best on the team is dance..

Yes, but tumbling comes easier to guys. I've always been told by coaches it's because men's center of gravity/where most of their weight is is around their chest and shoulders while girl's carry it around their hips. It's harder to get your hips over your head in a back tuck than your shoulders. This is just what my tumbling coaches have told me over the years, I'm not claiming to be an expert, but I can totally see it. And guys can simply build muscle more easily than girls.

If you can land a tuck and know basic coed stunting, you can make a D1 college cheerleading team. Heck, even if you don't have a tuck, some will still take you and teach you. I've seen plenty of football players switch at the drop of a hat and make it, or decide to try out for their college team the week before and make it, while girls that have been tumbling since they were 4 get cut the first night. In NO WAY whatsoever am I saying male cheerleaders don't work their butts off or that they can do anything my snapping their fingers, they're hard workers. I just believe it's easier for males to succeed and advance quicker than females just because men and women are built differently and the fact that males are the minority in this sport.

 

[AndrewSky]

Yes, but tumbling comes easier to guys. I've always been told by coaches it's because men's center of gravity/where most of their weight is is around their chest and shoulders while girl's carry it around their hips. It's harder to get your hips over your head in a back tuck than your shoulders. This is just what my tumbling coaches have told me over the years, I'm not claiming to be an expert, but I can totally see it. And guys can simply build muscle more easily than girls.

If you can land a tuck and know basic coed stunting, you can make a D1 college cheerleading team. Heck, even if you don't have a tuck, some will still take you and teach you. I've seen plenty of football players switch at the drop of a hat and make it, or decide to try out for their college team the week before and make it, while girls that have been tumbling since they were 4 get cut the first night. In NO WAY whatsoever am I saying male cheerleaders don't work their butts off or that they can do anything my snapping their fingers, they're hard workers. I just believe it's easier for males to succeed and advance quicker than females just because men and women are built differently and the fact that males are the minority in this sport.

It may be easier for us to acquire the skills, but we definitely don't have it "easier."

 

[Mamarazzi]

Really if you think about it this is going to push those girls who aren't the standard little coed flyers to work harder to earn their spot because if they plan on going to any of the top schools that have a coed team they will have to work that hard to make the team.

This presumes that the taller girls are even given the chance to work harder. Wonder how many have been discounted because a coach thought the littler girl, who doesn't have the skills yet, would be easier to throw around than the taller girl who does.

 

[AndyT_T]

Yes, but tumbling comes easier to guys. I've always been told by coaches it's because men's center of gravity/where most of their weight is is around their chest and shoulders while girl's carry it around their hips. It's harder to get your hips over your head in a back tuck than your shoulders. This is just what my tumbling coaches have told me over the years, I'm not claiming to be an expert, but I can totally see it. And guys can simply build muscle more easily than girls.

If you can land a tuck and know basic coed stunting, you can make a D1 college cheerleading team. Heck, even if you don't have a tuck, some will still take you and teach you. I've seen plenty of football players switch at the drop of a hat and make it, or decide to try out for their college team the week before and make it, while girls that have been tumbling since they were 4 get cut the first night. In NO WAY whatsoever am I saying male cheerleaders don't work their butts off or that they can do anything my snapping their fingers, they're hard workers. I just believe it's easier for males to succeed and advance quicker than females just because men and women are built differently and the fact that males are the minority in this sport.

I think the problem is that the boys who have been tumbling since the age of four dont get the spot, the football players do.
Also, Im in the gym 5 days a week and I can barely punch front through to full. Tumbling is different for EVERY person.

Im just saying that the standards in cheer are MUCH higher for guys. When you see a boy on a team you expect him to be the best one on the team. Period.

 

[coldasICE]

It may be easier for us to acquire the skills, but we definitely don't have it "easier."

I couldn't agree more. While guys may acquire skills easier, I've often felt that it's harder for us to make teams cuts. Most successful programs attract more males, and the more males you have, the harder it is to narrow down your talent to the limit of guys allowed. JMO.

 

[12stepCheermom]

Yes, but tumbling comes easier to guys. I've always been told by coaches it's because men's center of gravity/where most of their weight is is around their chest and shoulders while girl's carry it around their hips. It's harder to get your hips over your head in a back tuck than your shoulders. This is just what my tumbling coaches have told me over the years, I'm not claiming to be an expert, but I can totally see it. And guys can simply build muscle more easily than girls.

If you can land a tuck and know basic coed stunting, you can make a D1 college cheerleading team. Heck, even if you don't have a tuck, some will still take you and teach you. I've seen plenty of football players switch at the drop of a hat and make it, or decide to try out for their college team the week before and make it, while girls that have been tumbling since they were 4 get cut the first night. In NO WAY whatsoever am I saying male cheerleaders don't work their butts off or that they can do anything my snapping their fingers, they're hard workers. I just believe it's easier for males to succeed and advance quicker than females just because men and women are built differently and the fact that males are the minority in this sport.

I agree with the physics for guys but I think tumbling comes faster to them because they are not the collective head cases girls tend to be. They eat the mat, get up, laugh about it and throw the same pass 3 seconds later. Girls get all tears eyed, freak out, think everyone is watching them and get all mental blocky when they eat the mat ( all complete generalizations of course but based on the last three years of observation)

For my son tumbling hasn't come fast at all. He's legitimately gone about a level a year starting from nothing to level four now. He is planning to push this summer to get to spinning but well see.

His issue is something else girls dont generally have to deal with as much. He grew over 9 inches in about 14 months or so. It's hard to get the groove for tumbling when (literally) your feet are not in the same place they were last month, plus that totally screws with your center of gravity.

He'll be 14 in about a week and he's pushing 6 feet tall. He's at least 5-11 right now but slept until NOON today so I expect 6 feet will be here in about 3 weeks.

Overall, I think their progression comes from the fact when they bust...which they do often...they get right back up and do it again without thinking twice about it.

 

[Kelli Nicole]

I did gymnastics and cheerleading 5 days a week up through high school - that stunted my growth a lot! I was around 5' until I was about 16, then I grew about 2" and at 17 I hit my current height (5'3).
In my first couple years of cheerleading (I started when I was 7 or 8) I was a flyer. Once I hit middle school, I was still small, but muscular due to gymnastics. I was put in as a base, simply because we had other girls who were stick skinny. I didn't mind all too much, I enjoyed basing.
In high school it was fairly similar. My senior year, I was one of the shorter girls, but still didn't fly again.
When I went to college, I flew coed. I enjoyed coed flying more than all girl I was one of the taller flyers in college, which was also weird because among my friends I am the shortest.

In 2009 I joined an allgirl team again and was used as a midlayer, I didn't enjoy it all too much and wasn't too hyped to be bumped to flyer for a competition, simply because the technique etc. was not up to par to what I'm used to and the trust just wasn't there...but that's a different story.

I think flyers can be any size/height - it really depends on technique and how they learn to carry their own weight. My flyer this year is the smallest on our team (5'1-5'2 and around 105lbs) and sometimes she feels heavier than our heaviest flyer who is probably pushing 5'8 and 130lbs.

I definitely feel that the boys - when taught correctly - can hold any girl. They just also need to learn to not be intimidated if they happen to be assigned a "bigger" girl than someone else.
I stunt with people for fun on occasion and I've flown with big "Hulk" like guys as well as smaller ones.