All-Star Do You Think Usasf Has Helped Or Hurt Allstar Cheer?

[dance_extreme_94]

I'm just curious what everyone's opinion is about USASF. Do you feel it's nesscary? Like/dislike? Why or why not?

Me personally I feel like it has definitely helped the cheerleading industry as far as safety goes, and making sure anyone who is coaching are qualified coaches, and that gyms are following rules. It has also added a lot more organization to our sport. However, I also feel like that having this whole USASF thing has made cheerleading much more pricer then what it was probably meant to be and because of that many aspiring cheerleaders will never get a chance to cheer unless they're lucky enough to make a school team. What are your thoughts?

 

[nicolee]

Every sport needs a governing body, otherwise there's no consistency.

And I don't think its made much difference to price, considering USASF has been in business for 13 years now, so any overall price increase is probably just due to inflation or growth of the sport.

 

[tumbleyoda]

Overall it has helped. There are issues to be sure, as there are with almost any governing organization. How well they deal with those issues and respond to their clients in the end ultimately determines their effectiveness and survival.

I do think there has been a lot of tone deafness in it regarding things that were deemed "too much like gymnastics and they are dying" or only "cheerleaders understand cheerleading" type statements and decisions. Lots of press releases should of been more carefully considered before they were released. Not grasping the true worth of the stages of various progressions for tumbling yet only listening to those who did not have to follow progressions to design progressions for an industry makes no sense. Lack of transparency in certain areas is frightening. The assumption that because there has not been a mass exodus that there aren't a lot of people dissatisfied is equally disturbing because it means either they don't see it or don't care.

But overall they get a passing grade. They just have a lot of work to do to regain the trust of people who have been around long enough to know better. The need to make better steps in the future and give more than lip service in dealing with them.

 

[King]

It has definitely helped. Has there been issues? Sure. But as a whole it is much better.

Also to be said, it needs to be even 'more better' in the future. As long as improvement isn't stagnant the USASF is a good thing.

 

[XtremeWpg]

I think it has helped to standardize rules etc.

I think that there needs to be a greater emphasis on the international component of cheer via the IASF, which to my understanding is happening.

There's issues of course, but there's issues with lots of governing bodies. Look at FIFA

 

[Official OWECheer]

Overall it has helped. There are issues to be sure, as there are with almost any governing organization. How well they deal with those issues and respond to their clients in the end ultimately determines their effectiveness and survival.

I do think there has been a lot of tone deafness in it regarding things that were deemed "too much like gymnastics and they are dying" or only "cheerleaders understand cheerleading" type statements and decisions. Lots of press releases should of been more carefully considered before they were released. Not grasping the true worth of the stages of various progressions for tumbling yet only listening to those who did not have to follow progressions to design progressions for an industry makes no sense. Lack of transparency in certain areas is frightening. The assumption that because there has not been a mass exodus that there aren't a lot of people dissatisfied is equally disturbing because it means either they don't see it or don't care.

But overall they get a passing grade. They just have a lot of work to do to regain the trust of people who have been around long enough to know better. The need to make better steps in the future and give more than lip service in dealing with them.

"only cheerleaders understand cheerleading"

You have no idea how annoying that mentality is. And I think the pervasiveness of that mentality is why so many people aren't open to help from gymnastics or power tumbling coaches.

 

[tumbleyoda]

"only cheerleaders understand cheerleading"

You have no idea how annoying that mentality is. And I think the pervasiveness of that mentality is why so many people aren't open to help from gymnastics or power tumbling coaches.

Part of the reason is that in gymnastics and power tumbling, learning proper progressions takes time. Mastering drills takes time. The amount of repetition that it takes to establish a good foundation to build on takes time. All that time instills a discipline that is paramount to athlete safety and injury prevention. You don't see gymnasts going on their home trampoline to learn a full when they barely have a back tuck. Then posting it all over the place and tagging everyone to see.

In gymnastics and power tumbling it is understood that everyone will not get to the highest levels and the entire industry is ok with that and in agreement. In cheerleading it is a race to to get to the highest level as quickly as possible. If you don't it is because your coaches are no good or held you back so you need to go to another gym. Then you can chase the dream of Worlds and have many more chances to attend and win. Additionally the scoresheet punishes you if you don't max out in tumbling at each level so there is pressure to put unsafe or janky skills in the routine just to get in the range and hope you don't get a technique hit. Or you can always argue performance error

Where cheerleading has the greatest advantage IMO is the positive mindset, challenging athletes to push themselves and not locking into one body type, age range or economic background to determine that athlete's chances at tumbling success. I have seen as we all have seen, kids that would of been ignored in a gymnastics competitive environment, that thrive in cheer. That to me is a great thing. That cheerleading does way better.

But I go back to patient and proper progressions. Any success I have had is because parents, athletes and owners have given me time to build a proper foundation not just for one athlete but for a program. When I came out here, I only agreed to do so if they gave me a 3 year contract. That was unheard of for tumbling coaches in cheerleading. Many of who struggle to make 10.00 an hour at times because we are deemed as expendable. But I knew I could not do what they wanted, nor could I do what I wanted if I was on a year by year deal. They gave me that and I am about to start my seventh year here. The results we have seen are directly correlated to having time to be patient and build in a way that encourages progressions.

 

[Official OWECheer]

Part of the reason is that in gymnastics and power tumbling, learning proper progressions takes time. Mastering drills takes time. The amount of repetition that it takes to establish a good foundation to build on takes time. All that time instills a discipline that is paramount to athlete safety and injury prevention. You don't see gymnasts going on their home trampoline to learn a full when they barely have a back tuck. Then posting it all over the place and tagging everyone to see.

In gymnastics and power tumbling it is understood that everyone will not get to the highest levels and the entire industry is ok with that and in agreement. In cheerleading it is a race to to get to the highest level as quickly as possible. If you don't it is because your coaches are no good or held you back so you need to go to another gym. Then you can chase the dream of Worlds and have many more chances to attend and win. Additionally the scoresheet punishes you if you don't max out in tumbling at each level so there is pressure to put unsafe or janky skills in the routine just to get in the range and hope you don't get a technique hit. Or you can always argue performance error

Where cheerleading has the greatest advantage IMO is the positive mindset, challenging athletes to push themselves and not locking into one body type, age range or economic background to determine that athlete's chances at tumbling success. I have seen as we all have seen, kids that would of been ignored in a gymnastics competitive environment, that thrive in cheer. That to me is a great thing. That cheerleading does way better.

But I go back to patient and proper progressions. Any success I have had is because parents, athletes and owners have given me time to build a proper foundation not just for one athlete but for a program. When I came out here, I only agreed to do so if they gave me a 3 year contract. That was unheard of for tumbling coaches in cheerleading. Many of who struggle to make 10.00 an hour at times because we are deemed as expendable. But I knew I could not do what they wanted, nor could I do what I wanted if I was on a year by year deal. They gave me that and I am about to start my seventh year here. The results we have seen are directly correlated to having time to be patient and build in a way that encourages progressions.

So much yes to all of this. I like the fact that you asked for three years. I wonder how that would work in a scholastic cheer setting.

 

[tumbleyoda]

So much yes to all of this. I like the fact that you asked for three years. I wonder how that would work in a scholastic cheer setting.

With the pressure to win right away or else, I don't think it would work well. I knew to build a tumbling program takes 3-5 years to see the fruit of what you are doing. Another crucial difference in my situation is that the tumbling program is run as a separate department from the cheer program. It does not exist to only fill cheerleading spots. As a separate run program I can institute different evaluations, skill checks, goals as needed and adapt often to hit my desired program objectives.

 

[dance_extreme_94]

Thank you everyone. My other concern is credentialing. Are they doing anything to change that option? Getting certified is so important and it adds so much more trust in your parents and to your program as a whole. It also makes it easier to attend sanctioned events and to be involved with Varsity Brands.

However, I have spoken with many small gym owners and many of them say that they have to travel distances so far that it requires a plane ticket. Plane tickets (round trip) can be extremely expensive, then you have to add on a hotel stay, and then you have consider your meals. Then you have to pay for the actual credentialling its self. The only thing that's free I believe is the concussion portion which you can do online at home. All those fees for these coaches have been between 600-800 dollars. Yes cheerleading will always be an expensive sport, and spending money comes with opening a business, but I think there should be at least an online option to get credentialed to save a few bucks. I know I'm in the minority with this, but there are certain verification processes they can make happen if they're worried about "non cheer" people trying to certified for whatever reason. Some gyms that I know of do not even travel out of state period because they can't afford to do so. I don't think its fair to have this as the only option to get certified.

 

[dance_extreme_94]

*double post*

Even USAG has online certification, Scholastic Cheer here in NC has an online certification option, so why can't Allstars?

 

[Michael White]

Thank you everyone. My other concern is credentialing. Are they doing anything to change that option? Getting certified is so important and it adds so much more trust in your parents and to your program as a whole. It also makes it easier to attend sanctioned events and to be involved with Varsity Brands.

However, I have spoken with many small gym owners and many of them say that they have to travel distances so far that it requires a plane ticket. Plane tickets (round trip) can be extremely expensive, then you have to add on a hotel stay, and then you have consider your meals. Then you have to pay for the actual credentialling its self. The only thing that's free I believe is the concussion portion which you can do online at home. All those fees for these coaches have been between 600-800 dollars. Yes cheerleading will always be an expensive sport, and spending money comes with opening a business, but I think there should be at least an online option to get credentialed to save a few bucks. I know I'm in the minority with this, but there are certain verification processes they can make happen if they're worried about "non cheer" people trying to certified for whatever reason. Some gyms that I know of do not even travel out of state period because they can't afford to do so. I don't think its fair to have this as the only option to get certified.

I think credentialing is useful to a point. As a tumbling instructor at a small gym, I know I can comfortably spot level 4 tumbling, I could spot level 5 too, but the demand is very small, and another instructor handles level 5, even though I don't 100% agree with the spotting technique.

If I were to get credentialed, I would have to travel to Boston, and pay for the trip and credentialing myself. It's not worth it for me. I work with between 30 and 40 athletes a week for lessons. I have two years of experience spotting level 4 tumbling, people trust me.

 

[dance_extreme_94]

I think credentialing is useful to a point. As a tumbling instructor at a small gym, I know I can comfortably spot level 4 tumbling, I could spot level 5 too, but the demand is very small, and another instructor handles level 5, even though I don't 100% agree with the spotting technique.

If I were to get credentialed, I would have to travel to Boston, and pay for the trip and credentialing myself. It's not worth it for me. I work with between 30 and 40 athletes a week for lessons. I have two years of experience spotting level 4 tumbling, people trust me.

I do think certification should be required, I Just think there should be other options besides traveling way out of state like many people have to do and some of these people can barely afford that. Its already expensive opening and starting a program and to have travel far distances to get certified when it can just happen online it seems a tad bit too much in my honest opinion, but that's not to say I don't think there shouldn't be certification. As said before, it should be required.

 

[Michael White]

I do think certification should be required, I Just think there should be other options besides traveling way out of state like many people have to do and some of these people can barely afford that. Its already expensive opening and starting a program and to have travel far distances to get certified when it can just happen online it seems a tad bit too much in my honest opinion, but that's not to say I don't think there shouldn't be certification. As said before, it should be required.

I think certification is great, and I believe it's something everyone should strive for, but it's almost a month's pay to get certified for me, that's not even including travel. I can't justify that cost myself. My small gym probably couldn't justify shelling out a few thousand for our instructors either, that's why I'd personally be opposed to requiring certification, but I certainly see where you're coming from.

 

[dance_extreme_94]

I think certification is great, and I believe it's something everyone should strive for, but it's almost a month's pay to get certified for me, that's not even including travel. I can't justify that cost myself. My small gym probably couldn't justify shelling out a few thousand for our instructors either, that's why I'd personally be opposed to requiring certification, but I certainly see where you're coming from.

I see where you're coming from as well. The only reason why I say it should be required, especially if the online thing becomes an option (saves a ton of money) is because in the past people who were not qualified to teach cheerleading, and didn't even have the true experience to teach cheer were trying to open up cheer businesses and sometimes even full blown allstar programs and that's just unsafe. I was like that at one point, but I have become smart enough and matured a lot over the years to know that starting a business is a very serious thing especially with something like Cheerleading where people can actually get hurt, and requiring some form of certification will limited "outsiders" from starting programs just because they think its "easy" and all about choosing cheer apparel hope that makes sense. I would truly love to see an online option come about. This would save much money. With the money I am making now, I can barely afford a bus ticket to go to Maryland to one of their certification meetings. Its very sad.