All-Star Does Execution Matter?

[StarshipTrooper]

Jammy should be thrown off stage anyway... possibly a cliff. Man that thing is scary.

But this is one of the challenges in any division. If there is a review process and the possibility my team might get more points and win if reviewed better I am probably challenging every single division I have a team in. I don't care if it is Tiny 1, if my team can benefit by getting judged 'better'.

As well, you are then making a statement about your judges saying they arent good enough to judge on the fly. We dont really trust their initial decision, so we are going to go back and review it.

I trust the judges, I just do not see how it is possible to grade and score these routines in the short period of time alloted and without the ability to see the routine from multiple camera angles. On appeals by staff, they would have to be limited, but you staff people are the only people that the athletes and parents interact with and I trust those very people to be the drivers of what is best for the athlete and the sport. Do not give up your influence.

And if better is more accurately, figure out a way to do it and get it done. Even if it costs more and is a more difficult. Having confidence in the judging outcomes is the key to making the sport more successful.

 

[Num1Stunta]

Should it matter though? If one team throws squad doubles but they are all janky and one throws squad fulls but they are textbook who should win?

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Just using this example, I'd consider them equal. So, there would have to be some other criteria to consider.

 

[cupieqt]

How do you score a team that has a wide variety of passes?

I would consider each pass I saw and judge the team on an overall score. I think the bell curve is exactly right.

In general, It's the majority of the squad, having majority clean execution for each section, and throughout the routine, that determines what propels you to the higher range of scores.

 

[CharlieCheers]

I think a team doing harder level stunts, but having a bobble or dropped leg or something, should deffinitley win against a team doing lower level stunts and hitting. In 4.2 this year, we saw tons of this.

 

[cupieqt]

I have always been under the impression that judging panels rely less on standards such as numbers of skills and the numbers executed cleanly and rely on the impression of a routine compared to others in the division. I can tell you I knew SE's routine better than anyone except Courtney and Sarah, and there was no way I could comment on specific passes, stunts and how they were executed specifically after the routine was done unless I focused on a certain skill. I just knew if it looked right.

The map of a typical routine is rarely unpredictable and judges can expect specific sections one after the other. This is where the compulsory part of every team in the country's routine comes in to give the judges a hand. No matter what level you are judging, you will see running tumbling, standing tumbling, an elite stunt section, tosses (except l1), jumps, pyramids, transitional/specialty stunts and dances. Now they're never done in a specific set order but a routine will usually follow a low to high pattern (jumps, tumbling and dance are low sections and stunts, pyramids and tosses are high) so even an average judge can predict what's next and they already know what the basic required skills are. By giving them specific examples of execution ahead of time (if they don't know already), you further help them differentiate between difficulty and execution scores and how to place teams in the correct range. Its easy to see when you know exactly what you're looking at.

 

[cupieqt]

I think a team doing harder level stunts, but having a bobble or dropped leg or something, should deffinitley win against a team doing lower level stunts and hitting. In 4.2 this year, we saw tons of this.

Mistakes should not be a factor in scoring overall execution. If a team has a fall or a bobble but they have superior overall execution and difficulty it should NOT cause them to lose against a solid, good team doing easier skills. Multiple mistakes are a different story bc it just hits your scores harder. Winning boils down to knowing your scoresheet upside down and inside out.

 

[CharlieCheers]

in small senior 4.2, (Haydens Senior Purple) we did switch ups, doubles, fullup to extentions, needles, tap downs, and completley maxed out level 4 stunts. it would make me so mad when 4.2 teams would do level 3 stunts. with the ocasional double.

 

[StarshipTrooper]

The map of a typical routine is rarely unpredictable and judges can expect specific sections one after the other. This is where the compulsory part of every team in the country's routine comes in to give the judges a hand. No matter what level you are judging, you will see running tumbling, standing tumbling, an elite stunt section, tosses (except l1), jumps, pyramids, transitional/specialty stunts and dances. Now they're never done in a specific set order but a routine will usually follow a low to high pattern (jumps, tumbling and dance are low sections and stunts, pyramids and tosses are high) so even an average judge can predict what's next and they already know what the basic required skills are. By giving them specific examples of execution ahead of time (if they don't know already), you further help them differentiate between difficulty and execution scores and how to place teams in the correct range. Its easy to see when you know exactly what you're looking at.

Then I must assume there is great variation in the skills of judges. Inevitable I suppose, but if the process is easy for you or high quality judges, I would think instead of changing the process of judging the competitions should commit to identifying and rewarding those that do well and do it right.

 

[cupieqt]

I would think instead of changing the process of judging the competitions should commit to identifying and rewarding those that do well and do it right.

Amen to that! I'm anxious for a universal scoresheet but I'm an even bigger proponent of highly qualified judges.

 

[SheCheers]

The map of a typical routine is rarely unpredictable and judges can expect specific sections one after the other. This is where the compulsory part of every team in the country's routine comes in to give the judges a hand. No matter what level you are judging, you will see running tumbling, standing tumbling, an elite stunt section, tosses (except l1), jumps, pyramids, transitional/specialty stunts and dances. Now they're never done in a specific set order but a routine will usually follow a low to high pattern (jumps, tumbling and dance are low sections and stunts, pyramids and tosses are high) so even an average judge can predict what's next and they already know what the basic required skills are. By giving them specific examples of execution ahead of time (if they don't know already), you further help them differentiate between difficulty and execution scores and how to place teams in the correct range. Its easy to see when you know exactly what you're looking at.

Two years ago we were at a competition, and i'm pretty sure there were judges selected to score only one part of the routine...there was a jumps judge, a tumbling judge, etc. I'm not sure if this is a benefit or not and i really don't remember the brand of comp it was....but this somehow seemed to relate to this comment, generally speaking.

At any rate, i'm a parent and i can tell if something is not executed well, so trained judges better be able to. i feel like if you're on a Worlds team and placing in the top 5, you shouldn't have a flyer who cannot do a correct bow n arrow. But i saw this. that to me, would be points off execution. i would also say that worlds teams placing high should not have a POINT jumper off count in the jumps! even slightly. that should affect their score. maybe it did, but clearly not enough...because the worlds placers' should WOW me, i should think "YEAH!" when i watch it. my cp's past seasons' mini 1 & Y2 teams were cleaner than a lot of these worlds teams.

 

[Deleted member 15]

I would consider each pass I saw and judge the team on an overall score. I think the bell curve is exactly right.

In general, It's the majority of the squad, having majority clean execution for each section, and throughout the routine, that determines what propels you to the higher range of scores.

That's what's done now.

 

[cupieqt]

That's what's done now.

Then I'm not sure I have anything to contribute. I like a couple of different scoresheets. NCA, WSA and jamfest are my favorites.