All-Star Evolution?

[xtremeteal4life]

If this is an acceptable stance, does anybody worry it will further cause more divisiveness between small and large gyms? My assumption is the crossover rules, for example, were created to curb some of the advantage of large gyms. If it isn't already, should the reality just be that large gyms have an advantage over small ones?


After totally learning something new in the Worlds scoring thread, I agree. Again, I'm not against making changes. More about implementing them given equal footing. There is a reason, why gym's don't save money and just practice in parks. If the mantra is win at all costs, then I guess the question is moot.


I'd consider the goal of Worlds is to win. But I consider the spirit of the event, to bring your best to compete on a level playing field.

Based on the replies so far, it seems that this is a more common occurrence than I thought. I guess only those coaches can answer it. But for a different perspective, cheer.coach mentioned that any of the other LAG teams could have done the same, but they didn't (as far as I'm aware). So were they just not as smart or felt it wasn't the right thing to do?

1). It's just plain safer to practice in a gym. If you can utilize a gym it makes no sense not to use a gym to practice instead of a park.
2). CEA isn't above practicing at a park as well. In fact, I'm fairly sure they've done it numerous times.. Missy correct me if I'm wrong @mstealtoyou
3). I consider part of "bringing your best to compete on a level playing field" includes coaching and their strategy. That should always be a part of good coaching IMO. I also consider SE did bring their best athletes and those athletes chose as a team to bust their butts for an extra 4 hour practice.

If for some reason you can't see that coaching strategy as bringing your best to compete on a level playing field, then perhaps you should raise the bar? I don't mean that negatively; I simply mean that I think that is "bringing your best to compete on a level playing field". I hope that makes sense. Now all coaches aren't created equally, lol and you can't blame/fault that when considering a "level playing field"..

One thing I will just say: it bugs me that people complain about Senior Elite's "30 point increase" because Stars went up by around around the same amount from day 1 to day 2. CEA have always been a risk taking gym. Mainly at NCA and worlds, they take the judges critique and actually apply it to change their score. NCA day 2 in 2012, their score increased dramatically from the changes they instituted from day 1 to day 2. Granted, not many gyms are willing to risk changes in a standard two day competition. But CSP and CEA are, and it worked out for them. Going into day 2, it could've been a complete craptastrophe, but it wasn't... I think it shows that these kids and coaches are willing to do whatever it takes to win.
It could've worked out really badly, but, I commend the athletes for working THAT well under pressure and showing that they can nail the routine, changes and all. Additionally, it shows that the coaches are willing to change their routine and risk something, all to better their score to be crowned with the gold.
I think it's freaking admirable.

YES YES YES!!! Shimmy 1,000 times!!!
That's no easy feat and I know you can truly comprehend that (way more than myself). I kept thinking as I was reading/skimming through- WHAT ABOUT THOSE HARDWORKING GIRLS?!!

P.S. I loved watching it again today and seeing us both again :chestbump: I also LOVED watching all four of the teams highlighted bringing it and throwing down the gauntlet as well!! Obviously a lot of hardworking athletes that weekend. Also kinda disappointed we didn't get to see Large Coed.

Let me start off by saying CSP is a genius beyond your belief. Always thinking ahead and that's the reason why she doesn't sleep till 4-5am. Second we did have a backup for worlds if we hit perfect and our score wasn't high enough. We practiced our backup for about a month (12 toss cupies). But as you know we didn't hit day 1 so put execution score, stunt score etc. weren't going to be as high as possible. So CSP asked us if we wanted to go and change stuff or try and perfect the routine we know we could hit flawlessly. We choose to perfect. We practiced for a couple of hours outside on the field perfecting our dance and pyramid. OUR choice.
As for Lady Elite, how dare you try and take their light away from them. This is their first year as a team together and coming from having only a handful of fulls, two doubles, and shaky stunts at the beginning if the year to putting out 2 amazing routines on that floor and making top 10 at Worlds, it was a dream come true and more than they could ask for. Those girls proved that they could compete against the other elite teams in their division and for you to overlook theoutstanding progress they made by asking that is foolish.
But to answer your question they did practice off of the critique the judges gave but had no reason to change anything because of how great their performance was Day 1.

BS Who you kidding?! That woman doesn't sleep!
As for bolded- preach on brother. So not cool guys.

I won't argue whether risk taking is their philosophy or not, since I don't know anybody personally. You could however debate the level of perceived risk in changes.

As an example, let's say you get a comment on basket variety. Def seen that one, so the coach says, ok change basket A to basket B which is a lateral move difficulty wise, but scores higher based on what the judges want.

Now let's say, the pyramid doesn't hit the required structures or maybe they just say they'd like to see more flips. Maybe not something you'd safely do outside of your All Star room, but you do have a backup pyramid. Risky to choose to do pyramid B? Yes. However the same scenario but you have access to a gym, and you're able to practice safely over and over. Risky? Not so much.

I think people are getting too caught up in the question of change, not the implementation. Or God forbid a CEA thing. I don't even want it to be about CEA, it's just an example that happened to work out. I'm always interested in discussion of how the sport is growing or changing.

Well let it be noted that my other replies would still remain the exact same if the team/gym was CA, World Cup, F5, Top Gun, SOT, etc. etc.

 

[thecheermoma]

I think she's a brilliant genius! She did her job as a coach, she saw what needed to be done and took care of it!

 

[nateairnj]

I think that the competition environment has changed so much over the years (automatic everyone advancing to finals) that people have now forgotten that competitions in the late 90s and early 2000s would eliminate teams between prelims and finals. Not only that (and not to take anything away from CSP or Cheer Extreme) but teams have been changing their routines between day 1 and day 2 for YEARS! This isn't a new trend. It's almost like a fashion trend that's coming back and becoming more popular.

Many gyms open their doors for teams to practice around major competitions. The safety of being on a cheer floor as opposed to grass is an EASY sell to most gym owners/coaches. I don't think that it's a large gym/small gym advantage cause when I worked at a small gym (40 kids) we would use local gyms to practice to ensure our teams were ready for day two and to make routine adjustments.

 

[as1rico]

It seems CSP is a lightning rod for doing the same thing so many other gyms are doing...my nephew is on Warriors and they had a spring floor at their hotel...Had practice with a high profile choreographer between day 1 and day 2 and made changes based on scoresheets...its great coaching!! Someone from CEA can correct me if I'm wrong but I am pretty sure CSP had a back up plan for each section of the scoresheet. Whats really going to be interesting to see if it changes what other coaches are going to do....will we see more teams "risk it for the biscuit"

 

[Bystander]

Hahahaha no one is trying to "take the light" from your teams I simply asked if they got the same attention that Sr elite did! If it were my parents from those teams they would certainly want the same attention! And comparing that Sr Elite won its a fact that, if indeed they did get the same attention, it didnt end up with the same results! Save your anger. sorry my questions equal "stupid arguement" to you.

 

[SparkleSpankies]

This is normal for any squad/program to rent gym space to practice. They do it at HS/College/AS and at all sorts of competitions that are not in home town. I don't see a problem with it. They run like $100 -$300/hour and then transportation, it's not like they bought out a gym... personally, i don't see an issue.

 

[SparkleSpankies]

craptastrophe.

my new favorite word!

 

[cheercurl]

Not all that long ago we were at a rinky dink gym and we practiced at another rented gym before day 2. This is very common? no? I had no idea our small gym with 39 girls was so innovative 2 years ago.

 

[AndrewSky]

Not all that long ago we were at a rinky dink gym and we practiced at another rented gym before day 2. This is very common? no? I had no idea our small gym with 39 girls was so innovative 2 years ago.

I've missed you

 

[cheercurl]

I've missed you

Aweee...will you marry me? :cloud9:

 

[AndrewSky]

Aweee...will you marry me? :cloud9:

Once you get your shimmy count back up girl

 

[BlueCat]

I think that some people are oversimplifying why the rankings in Large Senior turned out the way they did the last two years, but the bottom line is that CEA had the best performance that day and deserved it. Everything that has been mentioned here about what CSP did between prelims and finals is well within the rules and smart coaching, pure and simple.

 

[The Sixth]

Based on the comments so far I'm still pretty much in the middle. On the one hand I keep seeing "genius" thrown around, but conversely, everybody says this is common.

Everybody is so focused on the rules. Of course it doesn't break any rules. My point was if it was an unfair advantage? There was a time crossovers were allowed as well.... Either way, I rest my case.

So with that said......

I think the day will happen in the very near future where a team does one routine in semifinals and then comes out with a totally different routine at finals.

Actually, now what I'd like to see is a team in LAG come out with NO day 1 performance. Watch what the other teams do, and then decide what changes they make to their base routine.

If that worked, THAT is what I'd call risky and brilliant. But I can't imagine many people would be fans of it.

 

[AndrewSky]

Based on the comments so far I'm still pretty much in the middle. On the one hand I keep seeing "genius" thrown around, but conversely, everybody says this is common.

Everybody is so focused on the rules. Of course it doesn't break any rules. My point was if it was an unfair advantage? There was a time crossovers were allowed as well.... Either way, I rest my case.

So with that said......


Actually, now what I'd like to see is a team in LAG come out with NO day 1 performance. Watch what the other teams do, and then decide what changes they make to their base routine.

If that worked, THAT is what I'd call risky and brilliant. But I can't imagine many people would be fans of it.

But it's NOT an unfair advantage. Any of the other teams could've chose to practice and make changes to ultimately improve their score, and they didn't.
That's just a coach really trying to maximize what her kids and routine can do. It's SMART coaching.

 

[King]

But it's NOT an unfair advantage. Any of the other teams could've chose to practice and make changes to ultimately improve their score, and they didn't.
That's just a coach really trying to maximize what her kids and routine can do. It's SMART coaching.

And not unique. I know most teams would adjust and change things if they thought their score would improve. I personally have done it before (as I know many coaches have). I don't think it was unfair to go rent out a gym because if needed I would have done the same. This is just a weird conversation honestly.