All-Star Gym Owners Refusing To Sign Release... Appeal Process?..

[kayleigh]

A girl i know is going through a situation like this. She was put on a level 5 team and after competing level 5 ONCE, they went down to level 4 and because it wasn't what she stayed at the gym for/was paying for, she left and went to another gym with a level 5 worlds team. Gym A refuses to release her. Gym A went level 5 for their last two competitions and got an at-large bid. For weeks leading up to this competition, the girl who left was made fun of and told things like "well at least i'll get to compete at worlds". there HAS to be a way to get people out of situations like this. I understand she should not have left in the beginning of competition season, but as a customer she was not getting what she paid for. This has happened numerous times with this gym and each time this happens, the person is ridiculed and bullied by members of the old gym. Coaches and athletes. Two years ago there was a thread about the same exact gym and a waiver for an athlete, but she was released because the gym owed her money.

 

[JayySoFierce]

This one time, during the 2011 season...


I can't even allow myself to bring disaster up again. :deadhorse:

 

[Nothanks]

I think that every Worlds athlete registered with the USASF (aren't they all supposed to be in order to compete there?) should be automatically mailed/emailed a copy of this rule that they PERSONALLY must sign (with the gym they go to listed at the top) as they register each year. No confirmation of signed copy sent? You aren't eligible to compete for a bid with primary gym's team. Any gym found in violation of this rule forfeits their bid. Make this more directly between the athlete/USASF with the gym involved but not in the middle. That way you ensure the gyms don't skirt around the rule by misinforming people, and athletes are held accountable because they KNOW what they're signing.

But then the problem comes with what about those athletes that are at a gym, on a level 3-4 team, but are working/have level 5 skills? They don't have to be registered like the level 5 athletes do. If they leave their program (or their season ends before worlds) and go to a gym with a level 5 worlds bound team, they can't get released and there was never a signed copy for them.

 

[newcheerdad]

Soccer in this state has concrete rules on this. Once you start the season you are committed. The only way to switch clubs is a release and I personally don't know anyone that has gotten one. It's just not considered an option in soccer. You either finish the season and then try out for a new club or you just don't play.

There's also strict rules about recruiting but that's another thread.

Soccer's a weird animal in that the rules are different from state to state, and in a lot of cases the transfer rule is more along the lines of what I proposed earlier in the thread - you announce your intention to play for a new team, and if you made a good faith attempt to get that transfer the state association will usually grant it even if the old team doesn't sign off on the paperwork.

There are some league-by-league policies that are stricter, but by and large the USSF's stance is that amateur players should not be contractually bound to play for a team no matter what.

 

[kristenthegreat]

But then the problem comes with what about those athletes that are at a gym, on a level 3-4 team, but are working/have level 5 skills? They don't have to be registered like the level 5 athletes do. If they leave their program (or their season ends before worlds) and go to a gym with a level 5 worlds bound team, they can't get released and there was never a signed copy for them.

Not a perfect system, but at least the major crop of athletes would be covered. Level 4 athletes could be covered as well seeing as they're close. Hypothetically, this was supposed to cover all athletes soon/all athletes will need to be registered eventually, so it would be for everyone.

 

[Nothanks]

Not a perfect system, but at least the major crop of athletes would be covered. Level 4 athletes could be covered as well seeing as they're close. Hypothetically, this was supposed to cover all athletes soon/all athletes will need to be registered eventually, so it would be for everyone.

aren't all athletes supposed to be registered by the 2014 season? Or maybe even this upcoming season? Maybe they could have any athlete 12 or older (worlds eligible) , regardless of level, sign the form.

 

[kristenthegreat]

aren't all athletes supposed to be registered by the 2014 season? Or maybe even this upcoming season? Maybe they could have any athlete 12 or older (worlds eligible) , regardless of level, sign the form.

Possibly. 2014-2015 I think? If so, why not test something like that out this upcoming season and get the kinks out before rolling it out for the full 12+ group.

 

[12stepCheermom]

But then the problem comes with what about those athletes that are at a gym, on a level 3-4 team, but are working/have level 5 skills? They don't have to be registered like the level 5 athletes do. If they leave their program (or their season ends before worlds) and go to a gym with a level 5 worlds bound team, they can't get released and there was never a signed copy for them.

I feel bad for these kids and kids at gyms without a level 5. Every season I've seen kids get asked to compete on someone else's 5 because they have lv5 skills, but their gym doesn't have a team. Ill just use mine as an example. They were lv4 at the beginning if the season, over the year they've hit jumps to back, running fulls, my son has specially to full, two to full and he can coed stunt (true coed stunting) my daughter can group stunt lv5.

We don't have a lv5 (which is fine, they're only 14 and 12 so they have time and the lack if necessity I think has helped develop those skills this year).

But if they were to be asked (and they haven't and I wouldn't let them anyway do this is all hypothetical) their season would have already ended, meaning they completed their team commitment, so it would be disappointing if they weren't released after their season ended. What would be the point of not releasing them? They never signed anything and their season was completed in full. Our gym released three (two boys and a girl) in this exact situation two years ago (back when you didn't need a release but they clearly had the coaches blessing) so they could help out two different gyms at worlds. One of those boys has now been asked by three different gyms (2 in SC and one in FLA) to compete this year with them.

He's a non issue because he's a super senior and didn't compete anywhere this year so he's free, but I wouldn't see the issue in releasing him either if it was necessary, it's literally his last opportunity.

 

[CharlotteASMom]

Soccer's a weird animal in that the rules are different from state to state, and in a lot of cases the transfer rule is more along the lines of what I proposed earlier in the thread - you announce your intention to play for a new team, and if you made a good faith attempt to get that transfer the state association will usually grant it even if the old team doesn't sign off on the paperwork.

There are some league-by-league policies that are stricter, but by and large the USSF's stance is that amateur players should not be contractually bound to play for a team no matter what.

My personal experience is with NCYSA. As a Team Manager I've walked a few parents through the process but of those only one was granted and that's because a team was disbanded.

The bigger point is that out of 7 years of my child playing club soccer I've known of 3 times that this was attempted. I've been pretty active in both my daughter's clubs which are the two largest in Charlotte. The mentality in soccer is different. You commit and you play. If you aren't happy you change clubs in the spring. Worst case you quit and don't play at all.

 

[yesucan]

Ok, I LIKE the rule... It absolutely prevents gym hopping, jumping ship for a better team, etc..., but I DON'T like that there is not any sort of appeal process at all. Soccer may be strict about it, but an appeal process exists. There are obviously coaches that are abusing the release forms! There are legitimate reasons to leave a gym. Owners have "held athletes hostage," and even if it only happened once, it is too much.

 

[liveyolife]

@livyolife are you saying there is no wording as shared by CharlotteASMom on the USASF form you signed? Just checking...

Nothing is on the form that explains the rule. There is a line that reads "Please Read attached athlete member terms before signing". Those forms were not attached to the USASF form. When the form was handed to my athlete to bring home it was conveniently put with several competition waiver forms. In the email from the team mom we were told the form was to verify the birth certificate.

Be honest, tell people the rules and then there is no issue when this happens. If you are not honest when presenting the rules to parents .... you look guilty. If we would have known the this rule we would have never competed in the first competition. We were just holding on hoping and praying it would get better.

At this point I have accepted that my child may not go to Worlds this year. I can only hope that the USASF will put into place a rule that makes gym owners accountably to be honest to their paying customers. This rule needs to be on the front of the USASF member form that you sign and one needs to be signed every year. The gym owner also needs something in their contract that states this rule...it protects everyone!! They also need to put in place an appeals process because if not gym owners have the right to do whatever they want with our children after the first competition because they know that we are helpless!! I just do not want any other child to get hurt and not be able to participate in the sport they love.

 

[Nothanks]

regardless of what the team mom told you though, shouldn't you be accountable for reading forms and verifying them? You wouldn't just sign a contract with someone without reading it to make sure there were no surprises, even if they told you it was "exactly as you had talked about." I understand wanting to trust what is coming from your gym, but that's still a responsibility of the person signing the document. That's what you're signing for...saying you read it and agree.

I know we're all guilty of signing things without reading them, but when it comes to certain things, reading them is necessary, even if it's just skimming to make sure it IS just a verification page vs. something more important.

 

[shadow]

A girl i know is going through a situation like this. She was put on a level 5 team and after competing level 5 ONCE, they went down to level 4 and because it wasn't what she stayed at the gym for/was paying for, she left and went to another gym with a level 5 worlds team. Gym A refuses to release her. Gym A went level 5 for their last two competitions and got an at-large bid. For weeks leading up to this competition, the girl who left was made fun of and told things like "well at least i'll get to compete at worlds". there HAS to be a way to get people out of situations like this. I understand she should not have left in the beginning of competition season, but as a customer she was not getting what she paid for. This has happened numerous times with this gym and each time this happens, the person is ridiculed and bullied by members of the old gym. Coaches and athletes. Two years ago there was a thread about the same exact gym and a waiver for an athlete, but she was released because the gym owed her money.

What about a gym that drops a level. You compete level 5 first competition to lock the kids into your gym then drop to level 4 at the next competition? Now you are either sandbagging level 4 or just trying to hold on to kids the few level 5 kids you have that you know would have left if you told them from the beginning that you did not have the numbers to make a level 5.

 

[Bystander]

Why does soccer keep coming up?? Bottom line on this is who is more important to USASF? gym owner or individual athlete? Any "rule" that allows one gym to hold someone out of spite is not a good rule. There needs to be some kind of arbitration.

 

[Valvalmom]

I've seen several references to leaving gyms for safety issues. For the safety of all the cheerleaders, I would hope that the first move would not be to jump ship to another gym. The issues should be addressed with the gym owner. If there is not a satisfactory resolution, the usasf should be contacted. This protects the exiting athlete as well since there is now documentation of the concern. I think it's too easy to cry "safety issue" in an attempt to contest the release/contract. I can understand the usasf not allowing an appeal if an athlete leaves a level 5 team with no bid (or a slim chance of going to worlds) for a gym with a bid or history of going to worlds for a "safety issue" if the "issue" was only brought to their attention after the release was not signed.

I personally think there are very few exceptions where an athlete should be released in the middle of the year. Either make the commitment to the team/gym, or don't. But don't play around with the rest of the team if you're not 100% dedicated. If your goal is to go to worlds, then do your research and join the gym that you feel is going to get you there.