All-Star Gym/program Category Ideas

[BlueCat]

We currently have a less-than-ideal means of categorizing gyms/programs that is used at some events to split up the results. I am curious what ideas/arguments there are for various aspects of dividing up programs into classifications. I see there being several distinct elements to discuss. (Current standards in parenthesis)

1. How many classifications? (2)
2. What do you name them ("Division 1" and "Division 2")
3. What determines which gyms go where? (Team enrollment)

A. What is that specific number/point? (125)
B. What counts towards that (all team enrollment, including AS Prep)​

4. How do you handle multiple facilities under one program?
5. What rule differences, if any, exist between categories? (None)
6. How do you divide/combine categories at events?
7. What events, if any, are restricted to specific categories of gyms?

 

[purplecheer]

Just wondering, why do you think it's less than ideal?

 

[BlueCat]

Just wondering, why do you think it's less than ideal?

I'm not convinced that teams competing against no one (depending on your view: too many divisions, too many competitions, etc) isn't a bigger issue for the industry. There may be 200 teams at an event, but many divisions will still only have 1 or 2 teams in them paying full price to do what amounts to a recital. We may also go to events where they simply completely split out the D1s and D2s with 5-6 teams on one side and only a single team on the other.

If you are going to have different categories for gyms, I see several fairness and efficiency issues with the current set up. I don't like some gyms being able to cherry-pick when they are D1 and D2 while others cannot. Shockingly to me, I have talked to multiple gym owners who have intentionally kept their enrollment low so to compete in D2. If we are trying to grow the sport, the last thing we want are incentives to keep it small.

If I were doing it:

1. How many classifications?

Two divisions
​

2. What do you name them?

"National" League and "World" League. (Not sure about the "league" part)
​

3. What determines which gyms go where? (Team enrollment)

Programs would decide for themselves and declare their classification at the start of each season. They would remain in that classification the entire season, period. This info would be publicly searchable on the USASF site. Technically, a gym would be National unless they declared/turned in paperwork/etc by a set date. Your decision affects every team from your facility at every event of the season.
​

4. How do you handle multiple facilities under one program?

Each facility decides for themselves.
​

5. What rule differences, if any, exist between categories?

"World League" programs are eligible for Worlds Bids, "National League" programs are not. Crossover and age restrictions are tighter for World League. (No 8 year olds on senior teams, no crossing down multiple levels, limited crossovers allowed, etc.)
​

6. How do you divide/combine categories at events?

Divisions are only split when EACH side would still have someone to compete against.
​

7. What events, if any, are restricted to specific categories of gyms?

Events may decide for themselves who is eligible.​

 

[marissa.d]

So would that mean that any gym with a worlds level team (assuming they want a bid) would have to declare themselves "Worlds League" even if the gym only had.. say 3 teams in total? Also, how would this work for gyms with multiple locations?

 

[BlueCat]

So would that mean that any gym with a worlds level team (assuming they want a bid) would have to declare themselves "Worlds League" even if the gym only had.. say 3 teams in total? Also, how would this work for gyms with multiple locations?

Yes, that is my opinion. If you feel strong enough to compete for a world championship, you shouldn't be able to shield your other teams from (traditionally) tough competition. I don't think many gyms would be in this scenario.

For multiple locations, I think each facility makes it's own decision.

 

[GreatWhite92]

Love it! @BlueCat for president!

My only question is about dance teams. My gym has multiple worlds dance teams but no worlds cheerleading teams. We have a r5 but that's as high as we go as of now. Would dance teams that go to worlds play into whether the cheer teams have to be worlds or nationals league?


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[BlueCat]

Love it! @BlueCat for president!

My only question is about dance teams. My gym has multiple worlds dance teams but no worlds cheerleading teams. We have a r5 but that's as high as we go as of now. Would dance teams that go to worlds play into whether the cheer teams have to be worlds or nationals league?


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I wouldn't think dance would affect the cheer side one way or the other. I don't know enough about the dance side to offer an opinion about if/how they would split.

 

[stuntjumptumble]

Loveee this conceit


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[AScheer]

Really like the general idea of this. I think too many divisions is our current issue.

If there is a world division and a national division, is the summit considered worlds or nationals? I also foresee a worlds type event popping up for the nationals division. I'm not sure how that would play out.

For gyms with multiple locations - I think they should only be allowed to declare their own classification IF they don't share athletes. Awesome Allstars Atlanta can be worlds division, while Awesome Allstars Savannah is national as long as there are no crossovers between the loctions. BUT if Awesome Allstars has kids competing on teams for both locations, then both have to enter the worlds classification. Not sure if I explained that well!

 

[omgitssydthekid]

Really like the general idea of this. I think too many divisions is our current issue.

If there is a world division and a national division, is the summit considered worlds or nationals? I also foresee a worlds type event popping up for the nationals division. I'm not sure how that would play out.

For gyms with multiple locations - I think they should only be allowed to declare their own classification IF they don't share athletes. Awesome Allstars Atlanta can be worlds division, while Awesome Allstars Savannah is national as long as there are no crossovers between the loctions. BUT if Awesome Allstars has kids competing on teams for both locations, then both have to enter the worlds classification. Not sure if I explained that well!

Maybe World's and Summit for "Worlds" league teams and similar events (like how Summit has a D2 competition now) for those that are "National" league teams?

And while we're doing this, is there any way we get competition brands to stop having 90 "nationals" a season? Each brand/company/whatever should only be able to declare ONE event as a "National" competition. The rest need to be called regionals or something.


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[marissa.d]

I do like the idea, I guess I just don't understand what would be a gyms motivation to choose "National League" for levels 1-4

 

[purplecheer]

I do like the idea, I guess I just don't understand what would be a gyms motivation to choose "National League" for levels 1-4

Wouldn't it be the same as if someone thought they were only good enough for D2? Also, maybe some people would try and sandbag it?

 

[BlueCat]

I do like the idea, I guess I just don't understand what would be a gyms motivation to choose "National League" for levels 1-4

They could use more crossovers, a wider age range, and avoid competing against "mega-gyms" at bigger events. Depending on your gym's situation, those could be powerful motivators.

There are positives and negatives to each category, which is how it should be IMO. It also gets rid of the enrollment standard which is essentially unenforceable.

 

[BlueCat]

Loveee this conceit

Assume you meant "concept", although I guess "conceit" probably fits if you ask the right people.

 

[tumbleyoda]

I honestly think that this type of concept is what was originally envisioned when we talked about D1 and D2 on previous message boards many years ago. In the present format IMO it is more of a money grab operation to me to prevent gyms from "opting out" of Summit or Worlds bids events, thereby offering even less competition and by extension less money to be made.