High School High School Tryouts

[oncecoolcoachnowmom]

I judge tryouts in Kansas and in one of the districts, the coaches can't see the tryouts, the scoresheets have to be tabulated by people not associated with cheer and the coaches aren't able to see who made the team until after the process is done and the team is already picked. I always feel really bad for the kids and coaches in that situation.


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If my admin/ADs came to me tomorrow and said that this was how I had to conduct tryouts, it would be my last day coaching.

I will say that while I am on the panel, I will usually let someone else tabulate (usually my assistant.) Not a big deal because by then, I have an idea of how the results will shake out.

 

[BuegeSmalls]

We've also recently had this discussion re: teacher recommendations. My coaching staff and I are thinking of getting rid of them for this year's tryout. Reason: No other sport has that.

We always had them too. I kind of get the reason behind them, since cheerleaders are ambassadors of the school it's nice to see how an outsider views the candidate but you do make a good point about other sports not needing them.

We always had outside judges for HS tryouts (usually people that our coaches knew & trusted. I judged last year #alumniperks), but the coaches got the final say. Typically they added the scores up and took the top 16 on varsity, but they also had to make sure that with that number they had the right amount of tops/bases/backs. Not sure how they made final cuts for JV though.


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[Boughetto]

Sorry to thread jack, but I'm looking for middle school cheer threads. I did a search but didn't find anything. If I missed it can someone post a link to the thread please...thank you.

 

[amy1k]

We've also recently had this discussion re: teacher recommendations. My coaching staff and I are thinking of getting rid of them for this year's tryout. Reason: No other sport has that.

I found, during my daughter's year of high school cheer, that the requirements for participation were shockingly biased against cheerleaders. For example, my son who lettered in football senior year had to do something like participate in two plays in a varsity game for his letter. My daughter was told that she will not letter in cheer because the requirement is participation in the high school state competition (which was changed in October to a weekend that she would be out of town). Crazy, because neither of my boys have had teams go to state, yet they both lettered in high school sports.

I'm not sure if I ever shared about the time this year where two cheerleaders were found to be dancing inappropriately at homecoming and the entire squad had to write essays and were told they would lose cheering at a football game. I'm sure I don't need to say that the two cheerleaders weren't dancing with each other...there were other school athletes involved who were not punished.

Anyway, situations like those are why my daughter will not be doing high school cheer again. These things never happen in other sports, in my experience.

 

[Cheerfun2]

Yes, I really don't understand why the selection process is so different for cheer vs other sports. My son plays HS basketball. There are no teacher recommendations. The coach picks the best players. Period. Why isn't cheer like that? Pick the best athletes. Period.

 

[OldskoolKYcheercoach]

Yes, I really don't understand why the selection process is so different for cheer vs other sports. My son plays HS basketball. There are no teacher recommendations. The coach picks the best players. Period. Why isn't cheer like that? Pick the best athletes. Period.

Last spring was the first tryout I conducted at the school where I am coaching. Not only did we not use judges. We didn't have a traditional clinic/tryout. We scored the girls on tumbling the first day, a chant the second. Our fight song the third, and evaluated their stunting potential on the 4th.

Having outside cheer judges is the biggest cop out in athletics. Combine it with the traditional "closed tryout session," and you've got a recipe for shady coaching. Got a girl you don't want with exceptional skills? Just don't let anyone see her tryout, don't let anyone see the scores, don't put her on the team, and blame it on the judges' "final" decision. I stopped judging other people's tryouts when I would hand coaches the scores, watch them throw them away without looking, and hang up their own results. I knew I was taking the heat for their shadiness.

As a coach, I refuse to have other people on which I can place the blame, I don't need a scape goat because I have the guts to stand behind and defend my decisions. They're pretty easy to defend, as we line up the scores from top to bottom and put the top scores on the team. There's little to argue, as the girls were all in the gym and watched Betty Sue do her full compared to Julie Lou and her front walkover. When we get to the bottom three or four slots, we will take a hard look at kids who's scores are all close together, comparing things like "seniors who haven't improved vs freshmen with potential," etc.

The idea that cheerleading needs outside judges is archaic and ridiculous.

 

[oncecoolcoachnowmom]

Last spring was the first tryout I conducted at the school where I am coaching. Not only did we not use judges. We didn't have a traditional clinic/tryout. We scored the girls on tumbling the first day, a chant the second. Our fight song the third, and evaluated their stunting potential on the 4th.

Having outside cheer judges is the biggest cop out in athletics. Combine it with the traditional "closed tryout session," and you've got a recipe for shady coaching. Got a girl you don't want with exceptional skills? Just don't let anyone see her tryout, don't let anyone see the scores, don't put her on the team, and blame it on the judges' "final" decision. I stopped judging other people's tryouts when I would hand coaches the scores, watch them throw them away without looking, and hang up their own results. I knew I was taking the heat for their shadiness.

As a coach, I refuse to have other people on which I can place the blame, I don't need a scape goat because I have the guts to stand behind and defend my decisions. They're pretty easy to defend, as we line up the scores from top to bottom and put the top scores on the team. There's little to argue, as the girls were all in the gym and watched Betty Sue do her full compared to Julie Lou and her front walkover. When we get to the bottom three or four slots, we will take a hard look at kids who's scores are all close together, comparing things like "seniors who haven't improved vs freshmen with potential," etc.

The idea that cheerleading needs outside judges is archaic and ridiculous.

Yes.

Sidenote: I would ideally like to move toward something like you described in terms of my clinics (e.g. making the experience itself evaluative as a whole rather than just a place to teach the fight song/dance/give them time to tumble and work on stunts.) Because really, anyone can get lucky and hit a stunt/land a pass on THAT ONE DAY when they've been 50/50 on it all week.

 

[OldskoolKYcheercoach]

Yes.

Sidenote: I would ideally like to move toward something like you described in terms of my clinics (e.g. making the experience itself evaluative as a whole rather than just a place to teach the fight song/dance/give them time to tumble and work on stunts.) Because really, anyone can get lucky and hit a stunt/land a pass on THAT ONE DAY when they've been 50/50 on it all week.

I highly recommend it. We cut a kid who was a returnee in favor of a couple of kids who had very similar scores who were incoming freshmen. I took one phone call from the parent. Explained to her the process, and that's the end of the story. No drama, no controversy, no meeting with administration. Luckily, a couple of kids quit later in the year and I was able to bring the girl who we cut back onto the team. She came back with a fire in her eyes that I hadn't seen before. That's how it should work.

 

[purplecheer]

I've never seen that. Did Becky get kicked off the team the previous year or something.


I agree, it should be like other sports where the coaches decide. People against that, what is your reasoning when other sports do this? Would you tell the basketball coach to have outside people decide?

Oh, that was a hypothetical situation. Sorry for being unclear :help:

 

[AScheer]

I with my coaching staff choose our own team. When I was hired I told our principals/AD that I would choose the team and they accepted that. It's ridiculous to let someone else choose your squad. If I were ever told I couldn't choose my own team, there would be a meeting explaining why I am anyways. If that wasn't accepted then the school would be looking for a new coach. Even with schools that do use outside judges, I've never seen the actual coach not allowed in the room.

I want the best and I will pick the best. But don't assume Suzy with a full is better than Lucy with a tuck. I know that Suzy with a full can't pass class to save her life, so she'll be sitting all season. She also starts drama with her teammates and is lazy at practice. Outside judges don't know that. All those that complain about how Lucy could possible beat Suzy don't have to put up with lazy, drama, failing Suzy 5 days a week for virtually no money. If we're putting together a team, that team needs to succeed, and full or no full, there is no room for drama or laziness nor do I have to put up with such just because she's talented enough to flip and spin at the same time.

Let's also keep in mind that choosing the 20 top scores for varsity = very bad team construction. What if those 20 (aka 5 groups) consists of 8 flyers, 2 backs, and a lot of mismatched base pairs. How are you supposed to get 5 groups out of that? Would the football team take all linemen and no running backs? Would the basketball team have all point gaurds? Baseball only fielders and no pitchers? Best scores may work for dance team but not cheer where there are positions to be filled. If I take 20, I need 5 flyers. Sometimes to get flyer number 5 I may have to pick the girl who technically placed 27th. That means 20-26 just got cut while 27 made it. That is just one reason why going by scores doesn't work.

We do a 4 day long evaluation where myself and the other coaches watch your skills, progress, attitude and work ethic. On the last day we still do a "tradional tryout" but it isn't the only thing that counts and our coaching staff serves as judges. It helps give us a guide along with what we've seen all week. We do teacher recommendations but they don't count as a score. Our staff doesn't work in the school. The recommendations help give us insight into kids we don't know. The recs only come into play if it's extremely bad from multiple teachers (i.e. Has an f and skips class every other day or mother is in here once a week yelling at teachers and admins) OR if we have 2 candidates virtually the same and need help deciding. 3 teachers saying she is always prepared, participates and is excellent at working with classmates could be the decider when they're tied everywhere else.

 

[Official OWECheer]

I found, during my daughter's year of high school cheer, that the requirements for participation were shockingly biased against cheerleaders. For example, my son who lettered in football senior year had to do something like participate in two plays in a varsity game for his letter. My daughter was told that she will not letter in cheer because the requirement is participation in the high school state competition (which was changed in October to a weekend that she would be out of town). Crazy, because neither of my boys have had teams go to state, yet they both lettered in high school sports.

I'm not sure if I ever shared about the time this year where two cheerleaders were found to be dancing inappropriately at homecoming and the entire squad had to write essays and were told they would lose cheering at a football game. I'm sure I don't need to say that the two cheerleaders weren't dancing with each other...there were other school athletes involved who were not punished.

Anyway, situations like those are why my daughter will not be doing high school cheer again. These things never happen in other sports, in my experience.

Absolutely ri-freaking-diculous! What a double standard.

 

[OldskoolKYcheercoach]

I with my coaching staff choose our own team. When I was hired I told our principals/AD that I would choose the team and they accepted that. It's ridiculous to let someone else choose your squad. If I were ever told I couldn't choose my own team, there would be a meeting explaining why I am anyways. If that wasn't accepted then the school would be looking for a new coach. Even with schools that do use outside judges, I've never seen the actual coach not allowed in the room.

I want the best and I will pick the best. But don't assume Suzy with a full is better than Lucy with a tuck. I know that Suzy with a full can't pass class to save her life, so she'll be sitting all season. She also starts drama with her teammates and is lazy at practice. Outside judges don't know that. All those that complain about how Lucy could possible beat Suzy don't have to put up with lazy, drama, failing Suzy 5 days a week for virtually no money. If we're putting together a team, that team needs to succeed, and full or no full, there is no room for drama or laziness nor do I have to put up with such just because she's talented enough to flip and spin at the same time.

Let's also keep in mind that choosing the 20 top scores for varsity = very bad team construction. What if those 20 (aka 5 groups) consists of 8 flyers, 2 backs, and a lot of mismatched base pairs. How are you supposed to get 5 groups out of that? Would the football team take all linemen and no running backs? Would the basketball team have all point gaurds? Baseball only fielders and no pitchers? Best scores may work for dance team but not cheer where there are positions to be filled. If I take 20, I need 5 flyers. Sometimes to get flyer number 5 I may have to pick the girl who technically placed 27th. That means 20-26 just got cut while 27 made it. That is just one reason why going by scores doesn't work.

We do a 4 day long evaluation where myself and the other coaches watch your skills, progress, attitude and work ethic. On the last day we still do a "tradional tryout" but it isn't the only thing that counts and our coaching staff serves as judges. It helps give us a guide along with what we've seen all week. We do teacher recommendations but they don't count as a score. Our staff doesn't work in the school. The recommendations help give us insight into kids we don't know. The recs only come into play if it's extremely bad from multiple teachers (i.e. Has an f and skips class every other day or mother is in here once a week yelling at teachers and admins) OR if we have 2 candidates virtually the same and need help deciding. 3 teachers saying she is always prepared, participates and is excellent at working with classmates could be the decider when they're tied everywhere else.

I didn't make myself clear in my post. We obviously build stunt groups, as you have described. Other than that, we go by scores. GPA and our teacher recs are worth more than any individual athletic skill, but not more than the athletic skills combined. I'll take a kid I know has a bad attitude, knowing that if I can't convert her, there's an alternate waiting on the list for when I kick her off the team.

 

[oncecoolcoachnowmom]

I with my coaching staff choose our own team. When I was hired I told our principals/AD that I would choose the team and they accepted that. It's ridiculous to let someone else choose your squad. If I were ever told I couldn't choose my own team, there would be a meeting explaining why I am anyways. If that wasn't accepted then the school would be looking for a new coach. Even with schools that do use outside judges, I've never seen the actual coach not allowed in the room.

I want the best and I will pick the best. But don't assume Suzy with a full is better than Lucy with a tuck. I know that Suzy with a full can't pass class to save her life, so she'll be sitting all season. She also starts drama with her teammates and is lazy at practice. Outside judges don't know that. All those that complain about how Lucy could possible beat Suzy don't have to put up with lazy, drama, failing Suzy 5 days a week for virtually no money. If we're putting together a team, that team needs to succeed, and full or no full, there is no room for drama or laziness nor do I have to put up with such just because she's talented enough to flip and spin at the same time.

Let's also keep in mind that choosing the 20 top scores for varsity = very bad team construction. What if those 20 (aka 5 groups) consists of 8 flyers, 2 backs, and a lot of mismatched base pairs. How are you supposed to get 5 groups out of that? Would the football team take all linemen and no running backs? Would the basketball team have all point gaurds? Baseball only fielders and no pitchers? Best scores may work for dance team but not cheer where there are positions to be filled. If I take 20, I need 5 flyers. Sometimes to get flyer number 5 I may have to pick the girl who technically placed 27th. That means 20-26 just got cut while 27 made it. That is just one reason why going by scores doesn't work.

We do a 4 day long evaluation where myself and the other coaches watch your skills, progress, attitude and work ethic. On the last day we still do a "tradional tryout" but it isn't the only thing that counts and our coaching staff serves as judges. It helps give us a guide along with what we've seen all week. We do teacher recommendations but they don't count as a score. Our staff doesn't work in the school. The recommendations help give us insight into kids we don't know. The recs only come into play if it's extremely bad from multiple teachers (i.e. Has an f and skips class every other day or mother is in here once a week yelling at teachers and admins) OR if we have 2 candidates virtually the same and need help deciding. 3 teachers saying she is always prepared, participates and is excellent at working with classmates could be the decider when they're tied everywhere else.

I try to go by natural score break and it has worked so far. I don't know that I have ever had to go too far outside the natural break to build my team (flyers/bases/backs.) I also tell people who come in hell bent on flying that I have more than I need (usually) and if you're going to try out with flyer ONLY as your designated position, you'd better be amazing. All of that to say that if they can fly AND base, they need to making basing a priority for tryouts because I need more of those. When I have girls get cut, they generally are FLYER ONLY types (who are outscored by more experienced flyers and not strong in other areas to balance out scores. Ex: Flyer only with a super low tumbling score.)

 

[RileyElizabeth99]

In my high school experience, tryouts have always been a huge deal and with lots of hoops to jump through. We have conditioning practices once a week that are open to girls from the surrounding middle schools as well as 9th-11th graders from about February to tryouts which are usually the first week of April. For tryouts, you are asked to write an essay about what it means to you to be a cheerleader, and then all of your teachers are asked to fill out a teacher recommendation for you via an email from the coaches and your lowest and highest scores are dropped which and all of that makes up about 15% of your tryout score.

First, we have 2 days of learning a floor cheer and our fight song and this year we are adding some stunting work into those days as well. Next, the third day we have a day of tumbling and jump evaluation. Tryouts are always on Thursdays and is a traditional tryout and the results are posted at the end of the school day on Friday. The tryouts are 'judged' by an outside panel but the coaches have the final say on placements.

Its quite strange that no other sports teams, including our Dance team that has placed in the top 10 at NDA nationals and has won state multiple times, has anywhere near the guidelines that the cheer team has.

 

[oncecoolcoachnowmom]

For tryouts, you are asked to write an essay about what it means to you to be a cheerleader, and then all of your teachers are asked to fill out a teacher recommendation for you via an email from the coaches and your lowest and highest scores are dropped which and all of that makes up about 15% of your tryout score.

This is what we as a staff would like to do away with. I have had them as long as I have coached here (6th full season) and am finding that they are not as much in line with my vision for the program's tryout process at this time.

...because you'd never ask a basketball player to write 200 words about why they want to be a basketball player.