All-Star Huge Problems At American Championship Varsity Competition!!!

[Cheer4U2]

This past weekend my program attended a Varsity sanctioned event held here in Chicago, IL by American Championship. It is a summit bid competition. I am a very realistic coach and I and don't sugar coat things for my athletes if a team is better than I will say that they are and that they deserved to win. So I'm not here saying that I think my team should have won but I am saying there is some SERIOUS issues going on with EPs Judging and just the future of Allstar cheerleading.

The overall feel that I got from other coaches and gym owners was that there was something going on with the judging. A team in one of my teams divisions was scoring like a tenth or two higher than my team in standing tumbling which I didn't understand cause skill for skill my team out tumbles that team so I went through the proper channels filled out the form so here we are four hours later and after checking back 3 times I finally received a text from the judge to report to the judges stand so me and my co coach went and talked to the guy he proceeded to tell us that he didnt really agree with the judging and would talk with the judges and see what he can do so another hour passed and i finally got another texr so we went back to the judges stand where we where informed that our inquiry had been passed onto someone else when I asked to speak to her I was told she was in the bathroom so then like 20 mins past and I asked again if she was back yet and they said oh she's headed back another 20-25 mins past at this point Im really annoyed cause my team goes into warmups in 45 mins and I had been dealing with this for almost 6 hours. So the lady finally comes and gives me every excuse in the book as of to why they scored the way they did which none of it made since and after I lay out skill for skill she couldn't really give me any more excuses and just shrugged her shoulders at this point the guy I originally talked to enters into the situation and after going back and forth with him he proceeds to tell me verbatim "you are back here fighting for only a tenth of a point". At that point I lost it and walked off..a tenth of point...my team took second to the team I was questioning just a few weeks ago by only .03 and here we are with a zero deduction routine they had a stunt fall two tumbling touch downs and even with their deductions they are still beating us by almost a point and a half! I'm still really upset about this!

There where also instances where a team with no dance (like finished pyramid music stopped and team left the stage) scored higher than teams with a dance. They told my senior three team they liked their one and half twist to prone dismounts (ummm you can't do anything past one twist in any level 3 skill) I heard that a teams raw score on day 2 was two points higher than it was on day 1 and of course that team went on to receive a summit bid! A team was allowed to go 3 hours later after their division was finished. It just amazes me the lack of clarity and full discloser on EPs and Judges. The "well its subjective" just isn't going to cut it anymore!!!

 

[Rudags]

We attended American Championships in Iowa last competition season. Two teams took first and two teams took second, we even got a Summit Bid out of the comp. However, due to their scoring and bid declaration - We said we would never attend their events again, and we haven't. #MoneyTalks #ThisGymWalked

 

[omgitssydthekid]

This past weekend my program attended a Varsity sanctioned event held here in Chicago, IL by American Championship. It is a summit bid competition. I am a very realistic coach and I and don't sugar coat things for my athletes if a team is better than I will say that they are and that they deserved to win. So I'm not here saying that I think my team should have won but I am saying there is some SERIOUS issues going on with EPs Judging and just the future of Allstar cheerleading.

The overall feel that I got from other coaches and gym owners was that there was something going on with the judging. A team in one of my teams divisions was scoring like a tenth or two higher than my team in standing tumbling which I didn't understand cause skill for skill my team out tumbles that team so I went through the proper channels filled out the form so here we are four hours later and after checking back 3 times I finally received a text from the judge to report to the judges stand so me and my co coach went and talked to the guy he proceeded to tell us that he didnt really agree with the judging and would talk with the judges and see what he can do so another hour passed and i finally got another texr so we went back to the judges stand where we where informed that our inquiry had been passed onto someone else when I asked to speak to her I was told she was in the bathroom so then like 20 mins past and I asked again if she was back yet and they said oh she's headed back another 20-25 mins past at this point Im really annoyed cause my team goes into warmups in 45 mins and I had been dealing with this for almost 6 hours. So the lady finally comes and gives me every excuse in the book as of to why they scored the way they did which none of it made since and after I lay out skill for skill she couldn't really give me any more excuses and just shrugged her shoulders at this point the guy I originally talked to enters into the situation and after going back and forth with him he proceeds to tell me verbatim "you are back here fighting for only a tenth of a point". At that point I lost it and walked off..a tenth of point...my team took second to the team I was questioning just a few weeks ago by only .03 and here we are with a zero deduction routine they had a stunt fall two tumbling touch downs and even with their deductions they are still beating us by almost a point and a half! I'm still really upset about this!

There where also instances where a team with no dance (like finished pyramid music stopped and team left the stage) scored higher than teams with a dance. They told my senior three team they liked their one and half twist to prone dismounts (ummm you can't do anything past one twist in any level 3 skill) I heard that a teams raw score on day 2 was two points higher than it was on day 1 and of course that team went on to receive a summit bid! A team was allowed to go 3 hours later after their division was finished. It just amazes me the lack of clarity and full discloser on EPs and Judges. The "well its subjective" just isn't going to cut it anymore!!!

The "it's subjective" line has been given to me at EVERY competition this year when/if I have a question about something. We had huge issues at a Jam brands even this past weekend and the scoring was horrendous. They told me that my teams score depends on what the judge is looking for...shouldn't the judges all be trained to look for the same things?


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[Eyes On The Prize]

The "it's subjective" line has been given to me at EVERY competition this year when/if I have a question about something. We had huge issues at a Jam brands even this past weekend and the scoring was horrendous. They told me that my teams score depends on what the judge is looking for...shouldn't the judges all be trained to look for the same things?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Team by team they should be looking for the same thing. But not event by event/EP by EP/scoresheet by scoresheet. Was yours team by team?

 

[omgitssydthekid]

Team by team they should be looking for the same thing. But not event by event/EP by EP/scoresheet by scoresheet. Was yours team by team?

Depends on who you ask haha. If you ask the gym that won, they would probably say yes. I don't think it was because teams (from the same gym) with significantly worse technique than my teams scored the same as us. And same for difficulty. Teams with significantly lower difficulty (less LTDs, less structures, less passes, easier passes) scored higher than teams with (IMO) better skills.

I understand that creativity is subjective and up to the judges, but the scoring overall did not make sense to me at all considering we have competed against these teams several times this season.

And I know I wasn't the only coach with these complaints as we know coaches from other gyms that had similar problems as well.


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[EmmytheFlyer]

This past weekend my program attended a Varsity sanctioned event held here in Chicago, IL by American Championship. It is a summit bid competition. I am a very realistic coach and I and don't sugar coat things for my athletes if a team is better than I will say that they are and that they deserved to win. So I'm not here saying that I think my team should have won but I am saying there is some SERIOUS issues going on with EPs Judging and just the future of Allstar cheerleading.

The overall feel that I got from other coaches and gym owners was that there was something going on with the judging. A team in one of my teams divisions was scoring like a tenth or two higher than my team in standing tumbling which I didn't understand cause skill for skill my team out tumbles that team so I went through the proper channels filled out the form so here we are four hours later and after checking back 3 times I finally received a text from the judge to report to the judges stand so me and my co coach went and talked to the guy he proceeded to tell us that he didnt really agree with the judging and would talk with the judges and see what he can do so another hour passed and i finally got another texr so we went back to the judges stand where we where informed that our inquiry had been passed onto someone else when I asked to speak to her I was told she was in the bathroom so then like 20 mins past and I asked again if she was back yet and they said oh she's headed back another 20-25 mins past at this point Im really annoyed cause my team goes into warmups in 45 mins and I had been dealing with this for almost 6 hours. So the lady finally comes and gives me every excuse in the book as of to why they scored the way they did which none of it made since and after I lay out skill for skill she couldn't really give me any more excuses and just shrugged her shoulders at this point the guy I originally talked to enters into the situation and after going back and forth with him he proceeds to tell me verbatim "you are back here fighting for only a tenth of a point". At that point I lost it and walked off..a tenth of point...my team took second to the team I was questioning just a few weeks ago by only .03 and here we are with a zero deduction routine they had a stunt fall two tumbling touch downs and even with their deductions they are still beating us by almost a point and a half! I'm still really upset about this!

There where also instances where a team with no dance (like finished pyramid music stopped and team left the stage) scored higher than teams with a dance. They told my senior three team they liked their one and half twist to prone dismounts (ummm you can't do anything past one twist in any level 3 skill) I heard that a teams raw score on day 2 was two points higher than it was on day 1 and of course that team went on to receive a summit bid! A team was allowed to go 3 hours later after their division was finished. It just amazes me the lack of clarity and full discloser on EPs and Judges. The "well its subjective" just isn't going to cut it anymore!!!

We were there as well and heard about the team performance that was well after their division. Not cool and I don't know the official rules on that but don't see how that is even fair. At NCA with the weather situation I could see that an exception could be made but there weren't any insane circumstances here. That team with the music that stopped however, was a level 5 team unless that happened with more than one team. They threw them in the middle of the level 3 performances for whatever reason. Sorry you had a bad experience

 

[Cheer4U2]

Oh yeah I wasn't referring to the level 5 team competiting out of order I was referring to them cause the judges gave them a dance score when they didn't even do one and their dance score was higher than teams that actually did one

 

[idrive]

Sounds like some of the judging at NCA. Not all but some.

 

[russscarce]

Until the day comes where a computer program analyzes a video, the judging will be subjective. "Raw" scores will never have clarity to anyone but the judge who compiled it. What sport do you know of where politics and money doesn't come into play? I can't say that every score and every judge is making decisions and scoring teams with an agenda. However, there is no doubt it happens at almost every event on a different scale.

We keep telling our CPs that they need to focus on ZERO deductions, not the jacket, trophy or bid. Those things are subjective. Deductions are what they have the most control over.

 

[Official OWECheer]

This is the 3rd complaint thread I've seen made about a Varsity competition in the past 2 days...

 

[cheermomforever]

Until the day comes where a computer program analyzes a video, the judging will be subjective. "Raw" scores will never have clarity to anyone but the judge who compiled it. What sport do you know of where politics and money doesn't come into play? I can't say that every score and every judge is making decisions and scoring teams with an agenda. However, there is no doubt it happens at almost every event on a different scale.

We keep telling our CPs that they need to focus on ZERO deductions, not the jacket, trophy or bid. Those things are subjective. Deductions are what they have the most control over.

For those who were at Spiritfest last weekend I heard level 5 teams went for a clean routine over a difficult one. So routines were "watered " down to get that zero deduction high score! True? Nothing wrong with going for a clean routine!

 

[CIACheerMom]

This past weekend my program attended a Varsity sanctioned event held here in Chicago, IL by American Championship. It is a summit bid competition. I am a very realistic coach and I and don't sugar coat things for my athletes if a team is better than I will say that they are and that they deserved to win. So I'm not here saying that I think my team should have won but I am saying there is some SERIOUS issues going on with EPs Judging and just the future of Allstar cheerleading.

The overall feel that I got from other coaches and gym owners was that there was something going on with the judging. A team in one of my teams divisions was scoring like a tenth or two higher than my team in standing tumbling which I didn't understand cause skill for skill my team out tumbles that team so I went through the proper channels filled out the form so here we are four hours later and after checking back 3 times I finally received a text from the judge to report to the judges stand so me and my co coach went and talked to the guy he proceeded to tell us that he didnt really agree with the judging and would talk with the judges and see what he can do so another hour passed and i finally got another texr so we went back to the judges stand where we where informed that our inquiry had been passed onto someone else when I asked to speak to her I was told she was in the bathroom so then like 20 mins past and I asked again if she was back yet and they said oh she's headed back another 20-25 mins past at this point Im really annoyed cause my team goes into warmups in 45 mins and I had been dealing with this for almost 6 hours. So the lady finally comes and gives me every excuse in the book as of to why they scored the way they did which none of it made since and after I lay out skill for skill she couldn't really give me any more excuses and just shrugged her shoulders at this point the guy I originally talked to enters into the situation and after going back and forth with him he proceeds to tell me verbatim "you are back here fighting for only a tenth of a point". At that point I lost it and walked off..a tenth of point...my team took second to the team I was questioning just a few weeks ago by only .03 and here we are with a zero deduction routine they had a stunt fall two tumbling touch downs and even with their deductions they are still beating us by almost a point and a half! I'm still really upset about this!

There where also instances where a team with no dance (like finished pyramid music stopped and team left the stage) scored higher than teams with a dance. They told my senior three team they liked their one and half twist to prone dismounts (ummm you can't do anything past one twist in any level 3 skill) I heard that a teams raw score on day 2 was two points higher than it was on day 1 and of course that team went on to receive a summit bid! A team was allowed to go 3 hours later after their division was finished. It just amazes me the lack of clarity and full discloser on EPs and Judges. The "well its subjective" just isn't going to cut it anymore!!!

We had issues a lot like these when we attended this brand in Council Bluffs. Not going to get into it, but some of the excuses made by the judges were just ridiculous. Although hard to justify a deduction for a major fall on a clean routine and no deductions on the routine that hit the floor twice.

 

[rosebud]

I don't think there is ANY competition that you are going to please everyone. It's the hardest part of the sport, you see a team that hit and was clean and then a team that drops stunts wins and gets a Summit bid. Times like this I wish my daughter was in swimming or track...something that is timed and the winner is clear. I also believe that you can take a team that won a major competition like Worlds, put them in a random unknown gym uniform and they will not score as high as if they stepped on the mat in their 'famous well-known' uniform. I really think judges score gyms higher sometimes because of who they are.

 

[PE_Cheer]

I've loved American Championships in previous years but after this year I'm not feeling so loving. At a large two day comp in Florida my Youth lvl 1 team was told to do an illegal skill in their pyramid to increase their difficulty score. My two outside groups did a tick tock to stretch with the backspot staying on one of the ankles. The judge commented that they would score higher if the backspot and both bases released.....it's level 1. Went through the process and kept getting referred to different people because they saw it was an obvious screw up. Finally was told it was an error and the routine has been reviewed and it did not decrease their score. Ok, a mistake was made but it didn't hurt them so I let it go.

Then we get to day 2, hit the routine, place second and get the scoresheets. A comment made was "great cradles and solid BASKET TOSSES......umm again this is YOUTH LEVEL ONE. So back to the judges stand and the 45 min run around until i get the excuse of "oh she meant to say solid dismounts, its been a long day" No kidding, what else did you miss in my routine as you were obviously imagining basket tosses!

 

[rosebud]

I've loved American Championships in previous years but after this year I'm not feeling so loving. At a large two day comp in Florida my Youth lvl 1 team was told to do an illegal skill in their pyramid to increase their difficulty score. My two outside groups did a tick tock to stretch with the backspot staying on one of the ankles. The judge commented that they would score higher if the backspot and both bases released.....it's level 1. Went through the process and kept getting referred to different people because they saw it was an obvious screw up. Finally was told it was an error and the routine has been reviewed and it did not decrease their score. Ok, a mistake was made but it didn't hurt them so I let it go.

Then we get to day 2, hit the routine, place second and get the scoresheets. A comment made was "great cradles and solid BASKET TOSSES......umm again this is YOUTH LEVEL ONE. So back to the judges stand and the 45 min run around until i get the excuse of "oh she meant to say solid dismounts, its been a long day" No kidding, what else did you miss in my routine as you were obviously imagining basket tosses!

It's like each judge needs a stenographer! The judges just speak into a tape and someone else records what they say and then they don't have to take their eyes off the routine to look down to write plus then that won't miss anything! Judging is just all soooo subjective. :-(