All-Star Illegal Elements (just To Raise Awareness)

[imrichhowboutu]

What about the release at 2:31??? Is that not a release landing in an inverted position?

I pointed out above that this is illegal. the flyer can't touch the floor in a continuous downward inversion. The flyer needs to stop non-inverted before becoming inverted and touching the ground.

 

[King]

What about the release at 2:31??? Is that not a release landing in an inverted position?

It's about the execution of it. Do they land in handstands? Then illegal. Are they just landing prone? Legal.

It's all about what you consider the position on the floor because they do it in one smooth motion.

 

[rvnblue]

What about the release at 2:31??? Is that not a release landing in an inverted position?

This could be a performance error because the athlete may be supposed to be caught prone, then inverted, whereas the other element I stated was clearly performed the way it was planned.

 

[kickdblcj]

Didnt SE also do the whole traveling downward while inverted thing in 2008? Was it legal because it happened at half level?

 

[imrichhowboutu]

It's about the execution of it. Do they land in handstands? Then illegal. Are they just landing prone? Legal.

It's all about what you consider the position on the floor because they do it in one smooth motion.

This could be a performance error because the athlete may be supposed to be caught prone, then inverted, whereas the other element I stated was clearly performed the way it was planned.

In the stunt, it looks like every flyer is touching the ground in a continuous motion from the top.

 

[King]

In the stunt, it looks like every flyer is touching the ground in a continuous motion from the top.

While I don't disagree with you this is an execution fix. It can be performed to be legal. So it doesn't bother me as much.

 

[UnfadedSprkl]

They are in pike position on the catch, like a V over the boys arms - so no?

Ok...I paused this at 2:32 and 2:33 and I don't see them being caught in a pike. Their hands are on the floor, both feet are above their hips. So I'm going with I still believe this is illegal. I could understand it being execution error if one group ended in this position, but not all groups.

 

[xtremeteal4life]

The issue isn't talented teams doing the illegal elements. I am sure they are physical fine performing them. Just like watching amazing tumblers doing double backs or someone doing a full twisting rewind for fun. The issue is smaller gyms seeing these illegal elements and thinking they are OK because they are presented in a context of that is what is going to be competed. I have already gotten questions from a few small teams asking how that is legal from people on the board that would like to put them in their routine. How should I answer them? And for everyone 1 actually willing to ask a question you know they are 50 who don't.

CEA like Rays or CA or Cali or TG or whatever are looked up to and followed and want to be emulated. It is a honor but carries responsibility.

I have no idea whatsoever if that is illegal or not. I was not commenting on a legal/illegal issue. I am not a coach, and I will defer to Courtney bc I trust her judgement and it seems to me like she knows what's she's doing after all these years. I wasn't going to even address that issue bc I'm not qualified. If you guys have a big deal w/it, why not email her yourself and express your concerns (instead of being nasty like @rich on his fb and replies)? -That part isn't directed towards you Kingston- If it's really a big issue that needs clarification and you're worried about other gyms copying it, then contact her yourself. It's better than posting this on the fierceboard bc she's way more likely to respond to an email from a well known coach like yourself Kingston than to check out some thread on the fierceboard. I'm sorry, but it's laughable after seeing some of his comments to actually think @Rich is concerned about any of our athletes' safety...calling it like I see it.

Again, I have no idea if the stunt is legal or illegal and was not commenting on that specific issue. The way some people were getting all worked up, I thought they probably assumed it was at a competition.

 

[carolinagirl823]

I am wondering if I am looking at the same skill that you guys are, because I see the flyer clearly curl their back under to be caught in a pike type catch rather than continuing to extend backwards. Also she doesn't even come close to touching the ground.

Maybe I am looking at the wrong skill? It is the side of the pyramid on the right when the left side didn't go.

 

[imrichhowboutu]

(instead of being nasty like @rich on his fb and replies)? .

By all means, please tell me how pointing out the numerous illegalities from your program is nasty? It is true that you have had at least 6 that i can remember from showcase to now and that is a bit ridiculous.

 

[xtremeteal4life]

By all means, please tell me how pointing out the numerous illegalities from your program is nasty? It is true that you have had at least 6 that i can remember from showcase to now and that is a bit ridiculous.

I have no idea whatsoever if that is illegal or not. I was not commenting on a legal/illegal issue. I am not a coach, and I will defer to Courtney bc I trust her judgement and it seems to me like she knows what's she's doing after all these years. I wasn't going to even address that issue bc I'm not qualified. If you guys have a big deal w/it, why not email her yourself and express your concerns (instead of being nasty like @rich on his fb and replies)? -That part isn't directed towards you Kingston- If it's really a big issue that needs clarification and you're worried about other gyms copying it, then contact her yourself. It's better than posting this on the fierceboard bc she's way more likely to respond to an email from a well known coach like yourself Kingston than to check out some thread on the fierceboard. I'm sorry, but it's laughable after seeing some of his comments to actually think @Rich is concerned about any of our athletes' safety...calling it like I see it.

Again, I have no idea if the stunt is legal or illegal and was not commenting on that specific issue. The way some people were getting all worked up, I thought they probably assumed it was at a competition.

since apparently you can't read either..like I said, if you're actually concerned for their safety....you would email her.

 

[imrichhowboutu]

since apparently you can't read either..like I said, if you're actually concerned for their safety....you would email her.

I see that you said you don't know if it is legal or not. What I am saying is that's all I commented on. Not sure how I am the one being nasty. In fact, discussing these legalities on here is actually HELPFUL to the program.

 

[wcdad]

I have no idea whatsoever if that is illegal or not. I was not commenting on a legal/illegal issue. I am not a coach, and I will defer to Courtney bc I trust her judgement and it seems to me like she knows what's she's doing after all these years. I wasn't going to even address that issue bc I'm not qualified. If you guys have a big deal w/it, why not email her yourself and express your concerns (instead of being nasty like @rich on his fb and replies)? -That part isn't directed towards you Kingston- If it's really a big issue that needs clarification and you're worried about other gyms copying it, then contact her yourself. It's better than posting this on the fierceboard bc she's way more likely to respond to an email from a well known coach like yourself Kingston than to check out some thread on the fierceboard. I'm sorry, but it's laughable after seeing some of his comments to actually think @Rich is concerned about any of our athletes' safety...calling it like I see it.

Again, I have no idea if the stunt is legal or illegal and was not commenting on that specific issue. The way some people were getting all worked up, I thought they probably assumed it was at a competition.

I don’t think people are getting worked up at all. This is a Cheerleading Forum and I think a healthy conversation has been taking place talking about if a Stunt is legal or not. No more no less. If I remember correctly Rich is a Certified Safety Judge and is qualified to comment on the legality of a stunt. This thread was started by some one asking a question to the legality. This has to be a GOOD thing for your program as well as others.

 

[UnfadedSprkl]

I am wondering if I am looking at the same skill that you guys are, because I see the flyer clearly curl their back under to be caught in a pike type catch rather than continuing to extend backwards. Also she doesn't even come close to touching the ground.

Maybe I am looking at the wrong skill? It is the side of the pyramid on the right when the left side didn't go.

There are two separate legalities being discussed here...
Stunt Legality - If you watch the video, the stunt we are reffering to is at 2:31. The bases dip (like they would for a cradle) and the flyer goes forward (not backwards) head first towards the ground and lands in a handstand.

Pyramid Legality - In the video at 4:00 (yes the left side does not go) the girl does a back flip, and then travels downward in an inverted position. For this release, it's not about how she is caught that makes the pyramid illegal. In a Pyramid Release move, a top person may not travel downward while inverted. She is clearly inverted (head below hips, at least one foot above hips) and is traveling downward. This is not legal in any pyramid no matter how the flyer is caught or if she finishes the inversion and lands in a cradle or on her feet...what makes it illegal is she is travelling head first towards the ground, even if just for a second.

 

[wcdad]

I have to think that having these go unaddressed here and to let them wait until Dallas or another Bid event to get called on them is far worse.