All-Star Micro Flyers And Their Dilemma (refuse To Use The Hated "f" Name!)

[luv2cheer92]

I've never really understood some of the age arguments regarding this. What about that unnatural super beast 12 year old base, are you not going to put her on the level 5 team because she is too young. Or what about that 4'10 90 lb 17 year old, can she not be on the team because she looks 12. I think there is a lot more that needs to be thought about then discrediting an amazing team just because some of their flyers are young or small. I guess what I'm trying to get at is that the only people who truly know the athletes roles on the team are the coaches, and outsiders shouldn't really judge it unless they know the full story.

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[Karlssssss]

In my personal allstar cheer experience, flyers aren't necessarily based on age or size. I am a base/Backspot, and over the years I have had flyers younger than me, older than me, bigger than me, and smaller than me. On my teams, flyers were based off of ability, if the oldest and tallest girl on the team had the best body positions and was tightest in the air, she would be a flyer. So, I wouldn't worry too much about your CP, coaches tend to put the best flyers in the air, regardless of size. If the coaches feel she will be a bigger asset to the team as a flyer, then they will keep her in the air. But if they feel she will help the team more by basing, then they will make her a base. I wouldn't put her in privates or anything to learn how to base though, the coaches should teach her everything she needs to know in practice.


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[TheDivineCheerYaYaSecret]

In my personal allstar cheer experience, flyers aren't necessarily based on age or size. I am a base/Backspot, and over the years I have had flyers younger than me, older than me, bigger than me, and smaller than me. On my teams, flyers were based off of ability, if the oldest and tallest girl on the team had the best body positions and was tightest in the air, she would be a flyer. So, I wouldn't worry too much about your CP, coaches tend to put the best flyers in the air, regardless of size. If the coaches feel she will be a bigger asset to the team as a flyer, then they will keep her in the air. But if they feel she will help the team more by basing, then they will make her a base. I wouldn't put her in privates or anything to learn how to base though, the coaches should teach her everything she needs to know in practice.


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Thank you so much for this!! That makes so much sense. A great voice of reason.

 

[cheerlaxmom]

a persons size dose not measure their skill. As long as the athlete is giving their all then they should all be treated with the same respect. No one can do anything about their size. And young girls can work just as hard as older girls.


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[MamaMya04]

You really think the top programs in the country (and most programs for that matter) don't take the time to train and condition their athletes??? Punk move??? It's physics, not laziness. You aren't going to see a 5'10" Olympic gymnast any more than you are going to see a 5'2" professional basketball player. The skills required for a competitive level 5 team simply require that flyers be small. Show me a team that just has flyers in the air and do nothing else - in many cases the flyers have amazing tumbling and jumps. Do you know the age of every single athlete on every team? Some flyers are 16 and some bases are 12. And I have seen some really consistent teams this year, so I guess I am not seeing any proof to your argument.

Well just as you have a right to an opinion, I do as well. I don't need to justify my opinion and neither do you. But I will since you're so passionate about what I have to say. I'm not saying pick the biggest girl on your team and tell the bases to deal with it. But I'm also saying don't pick a child that could really be on a Mini or Youth level team to be on a Senior level team for the purpose of being a flyer because they are tiny. I am speaking from my OWN personal experience which is why I began that sentence with the disclaimer that it was my personal opinion. I have a 9 year old who feels fat because she's an inch taller than the other flyers on her team. I am 5'10 and 123 lbs. The idea that my child would ever in this lifetime become fat without the presence of maybe a thyroid problem is laughable. At the beginning of the season her stunt group complained that she is heavy. Her gym owner felt she was too big to fly and thankfully her coach fought to keep her in the air. There hasn't been one competition this year that my CP hasn't hit every last one of her stunts. She's the most consistent and dependable flyer on the team. So from my own personal experience, I know what it's like to be at a gym where the stigma is all the flyers have to be 4 ft tall and 50 lbs and I have to deal with the consequences of that every day. On the other side, I have an 8 year old neighbor on a junior level 4 team who sits with my 9 year old during competition because there are not enough girls her age on the team that she relates to. Not to mention she had no level 3 or 4 flying skills and had not mastered level 4 tumbling skills prior to the season. If you can come up with another reason for her to be on a J4 team, I'd love to hear it.

And if you're going to respond to my direct quote, be clear on what you're responding to. I said the athlete is chosen for the main purpose of flying. I never stated that is solely what that athlete does on the team. Last I checked, those two words held very different meanings. My 8 yr old can do everything the older girls do. Your example of 16 yr old flyers and 12 year old bases doesn't hold water with me. Their daily situation is too similar to use in this discussion. They both have lockers, switch classes 6 or 7 times a day, and a surely more interested in boys among other things. Explain to me how a 7th grader relates to her team mate whose in the second grade aside from the sport. Go ahead, I'll wait..... I'm not trying to discredit what these athletes do. My issue isn't with the athletes, it's with the owners and coaches. I have seen plenty of flyers that are the same height and general physical size as their bases. To me there is no excuse to have a flyer 6 years younger and literally half your height and probably a third your weight. If high school cheerleaders can do it, you can't tell me that All-star can't. High School cheerleaders base flyers that mirror themselves size-wise more often than not. Then it comes down to flexibility and who is better at flying and basing. While I respect what you have to say, I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this one because I could go on and on trying to explain my original post. I'm not fanatical about cheer. Sure I cheered in high school and my CP cheers now. However, it's just cheer bows and glitter to me. I can name 4 nationally wait 5 nationally renowned (if not world renowned) teams. I am unable to rattle off a list of gyms and teams for more than 2 seconds. If the athletes name isn't Ramya, I probably wouldn't know who you were talking about because at the end of the day, it's not that serious to me. When I speak on my own personal opinion, please trust that it is not to be considered a professional opinion. My opinion doesn't have to be adopted in to law and is surely doesn't have to reflect popular opinion.

 

[quitthedrama]

Well just as you have a right to an opinion, I do as well. I don't need to justify my opinion and neither do you. But I will since you're so passionate about what I have to say. I'm not saying pick the biggest girl on your team and tell the bases to deal with it. But I'm also saying don't pick a child that could really be on a Mini or Youth level team to be on a Senior level team for the purpose of being a flyer because they are tiny. I am speaking from my OWN personal experience which is why I began that sentence with the disclaimer that it was my personal opinion. I have a 9 year old who feels fat because she's an inch taller than the other flyers on her team. I am 5'10 and 123 lbs. The idea that my child would ever in this lifetime become fat without the presence of maybe a thyroid problem is laughable. At the beginning of the season her stunt group complained that she is heavy. Her gym owner felt she was too big to fly and thankfully her coach fought to keep her in the air. There hasn't been one competition this year that my CP hasn't hit every last one of her stunts. She's the most consistent and dependable flyer on the team. So from my own personal experience, I know what it's like to be at a gym where the stigma is all the flyers have to be 4 ft tall and 50 lbs and I have to deal with the consequences of that every day. On the other side, I have an 8 year old neighbor on a junior level 4 team who sits with my 9 year old during competition because there are not enough girls her age on the team that she relates to. Not to mention she had no level 3 or 4 flying skills and had not mastered level 4 tumbling skills prior to the season. If you can come up with another reason for her to be on a J4 team, I'd love to hear it.

And if you're going to respond to my direct quote, be clear on what you're responding to. I said the athlete is chosen for the main purpose of flying. I never stated that is solely what that athlete does on the team. Last I checked, those two words held very different meanings. My 8 yr old can do everything the older girls do. Your example of 16 yr old flyers and 12 year old bases doesn't hold water with me. Their daily situation is too similar to use in this discussion. They both have lockers, switch classes 6 or 7 times a day, and a surely more interested in boys among other things. Explain to me how a 7th grader relates to her team mate whose in the second grade aside from the sport. Go ahead, I'll wait..... I'm not trying to discredit what these athletes do. My issue isn't with the athletes, it's with the owners and coaches. I have seen plenty of flyers that are the same height and general physical size as their bases. To me there is no excuse to have a flyer 6 years younger and literally half your height and probably a third your weight. If high school cheerleaders can do it, you can't tell me that All-star can't. High School cheerleaders base flyers that mirror themselves size-wise more often than not. Then it comes down to flexibility and who is better at flying and basing. While I respect what you have to say, I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this one because I could go on and on trying to explain my original post. I'm not fanatical about cheer. Sure I cheered in high school and my CP cheers now. However, it's just cheer bows and glitter to me. I can name 4 nationally wait 5 nationally renowned (if not world renowned) teams. I am unable to rattle off a list of gyms and teams for more than 2 seconds. If the athletes name isn't Ramya, I probably wouldn't know who you were talking about because at the end of the day, it's not that serious to me. When I speak on my own personal opinion, please trust that it is not to be considered a professional opinion. My opinion doesn't have to be adopted in to law and is surely doesn't have to reflect popular opinion.

I took exception to you saying using small flyers was a punk move on the gym's part and your insinuation that small flyers were only used because they were small, not because they were talented. I apologize if I misinterpreted your post incorrectly.

 

[ScottyB]

This subject is always very sensitive..
Especially speaking as a guy.

Regardless of size, a flyer should be working as hard or harder than her base(s). Your job is to stand strong, pull up, stay tight, etc. After that it comes to communication between bases and tops, discussing what they feel and what they need from their counterpart to make the stunt hit.

The "f" word comes from flyers being loose and looking like they are being chucked around by their bases which looks "easy" to the audience

 

[TheDivineCheerYaYaSecret]

This subject is always very sensitive..
Especially speaking as a guy.

Regardless of size, a flyer should be working as hard or harder than her base(s). Your job is to stand strong, pull up, stay tight, etc. After that it comes to communication between bases and tops, discussing what they feel and what they need from their counterpart to make the stunt hit.

The "f" word comes from flyers being loose and looking like they are being chucked around by their bases which looks "easy" to the audience

Your comment makes perfect sense. So if my CP is tight in the air, holds her own weight, has the proper form when she pulls her moves, and contributes as well in tumbling, jumps, and the dance then I shouldn't assume the tag of "fetus flyer" is applying to her. Rather that tag is for the flyers that are not actually doing their part, they are just small and can be handled by their bases and backspots to be in the air?

 

[SheCheers]

This subject is always very sensitive..
Especially speaking as a guy.

Regardless of size, a flyer should be working as hard or harder than her base(s). Your job is to stand strong, pull up, stay tight, etc. After that it comes to communication between bases and tops, discussing what they feel and what they need from their counterpart to make the stunt hit.

The "f" word comes from flyers being loose and looking like they are being chucked around by their bases which looks "easy" to the audience

But those flyers aren't "easy" to base, so I don't see the "advantage" of having them or the outcry against it (not necessarily directed towards you).

 

[TheDivineCheerYaYaSecret]

But those flyers aren't "easy" to base, so I don't see the "advantage" of having them or the outcry against it (not necessarily directed towards you).

So you are saying the loose, little flyers are not easy to base? I don't disagree with that I'm just trying to clarify. Slight cheer hangover from yesterday so I'm a little off.

 

[MissCongeniality]

Your comment makes perfect sense. So if my CP is tight in the air, holds her own weight, has the proper form when she pulls her moves, and contributes as well in tumbling, jumps, and the dance then I shouldn't assume the tag of "fetus flyer" is applying to her. Rather that tag is for the flyers that are not actually doing their part, they are just small and can be handled by their bases and backspots to be in the air?

You know the term I once heard and I think best applies to what so many get frustrated about in these situations, is "little girl syndrome". This is the flyer who, because she is so small, develops bad habits flying because, for the most part, the tall backspot has his/her hand all the way up her thigh and the bases can easily do what they need to do because the flyer, despite holding herself like a wet noodle, is still relatively light weight.

 

[TheDivineCheerYaYaSecret]

You know the term I once heard and I think best applies to what so many get frustrated about in these situations, is "little girl syndrome". This is the flyer who, because she is so small develops bad habits flying because, for the most part, the tall backspot has his/her hand all the way up her thigh and the bases can easily do what they need to do because the flyer, despite holding herself like a wet noodle, is still relatively light weight.

Yes! I saw some of the "little girl syndrome" yesterday.

 

[SheCheers]

So you are saying the loose, little flyers are not easy to base? I don't disagree with that I'm just trying to clarify. Slight cheer hangover from yesterday so I'm a little off.

Yes, if a flyer is tiny, but still can't stay tight, it is harder (according to what bases have told me..lol...I don't cheer) to base than a tight relatively larger flyer.

 

[ScottyB]

But those flyers aren't "easy" to base, so I don't see the "advantage" of having them or the outcry against it (not necessarily directed towards you).

Yea if a flyer has "LGS" (lol) then it makes it harder to accomplish what I as a base or coed partner want to do with my stunt.

Body control is key

 

[MissCongeniality]

Yes! I saw some of the "little girl syndrome" yesterday.

Yea if a flyer has "LGS" (lol) then it makes it harder to accomplish what I as a base or coed partner want to do with my stunt.

Body control is key

Squeeze that penny!
The sad thing is that 9 times out of 10 it is LGS flyer's mommies who go about loudly complaining that it is all the bases' fault that LGS' stunt fell. The remaining 1 realizes it takes the whole group and her LGS may have played a role.