All-Star "name" Of Gym Affecting Placement?

[BlueCat]

We have been to competitions where they announce scores as they go. The same surprise element is there, but it is stretched out over the whole event. It makes the whole day much more interesting for the spectators, as they can now follow along the whole time - like they would at nearly every sports event.

 

[yojaehs]

We have been to competitions where they announce scores as they go. The same surprise element is there, but it is stretched out over the whole event. It makes the whole day much more interesting for the spectators, as they can now follow along the whole time - like they would at nearly every sports event.

Agreed 100%!!! I think this is the best way! Also, to piggy back a previous comment you made in regards to ATTENDANCE! Coaches, Owners YOU have the power to get the RIGHT things done! If you continue to attend poorly run events, they will continue to run poorly, if you choose not to they will either go away or change.

Now when it comes to name, or knowing judges I thought about this a lot last night, we were actually discussing this between a few of our friends ( three different gyms, all coaches having dinner ). We all know the same judges, we all know the same people. I'll use a "what if" scenario - BlueCat and Andre are judging an event that kingston and I have the same team in the division. All four of us know one another, and here is how I would see the conversation between kingston and I going...
kingston "Did you see Bluecat and Andre are judging?"
Me "Yeah I did, thank God, we know they will get it right."
Kingston "Amen to that, Good Luck man"
Me "You too brotha, where are yall eating after?"

I just don't understand why people always assume there are hidden agendas. If you feel there are, Please Please Please don't return to that event ever again. If you are looking for good, quality events, take the time to do you research and ask around, if anyone wants to know events I recommend contacting any coach/program you respect, MOST would love to help. We actually have our competitions laid out before our try-outs for the season start.
Thanks!

Oh yeah, please show all scores to everyone, if you got something to hide it will be found out, hiding is shady.

 

[BlueCat]

We have been to competitions where they announce scores as they go. The same surprise element is there, but it is stretched out over the whole event. It makes the whole day much more interesting for the spectators, as they can now follow along the whole time - like they would at nearly every sports event.

Note that this would NOT work with scoring systems like CHEERSPORT. Their scores are relative to the other teams in their division, not judged against an absolute scale. They have to wait until all the teams are done to know what scores to give. (Also, their scores have no relevance when comparing from division to division. That would be like saying that Podunk HS is superior because they scored 42 points in their game against Backwater HS over the weekend, while the New England Patriots ONLY scored 38 in the Superbowl.)

Others, like Varsity, are theoretically done against a "standard". This would, in theory, be like getting times from a track meet. (Not a perfect analogy, because of different scoring panels and potentially different scoring grids - but you get the overall idea.)

 

[newcheerdad]

Note that this would NOT work with scoring systems like CHEERSPORT. Their scores are relative to the other teams in their division, not judged against an absolute scale. They have to wait until all the teams are done to know what scores to give. (Also, their scores have no relevance when comparing from division to division. That would be like saying that Podunk HS is superior because they scored 42 points in their game against Backwater HS over the weekend, while the New England Patriots ONLY scored 38 in the Superbowl.)

Others, like Varsity, are theoretically done against a "standard". This would, in theory, be like getting times from a track meet. (Not a perfect analogy, because of different scoring panels and potentially different scoring grids - but you get the overall idea.)

This is why a universal scoring rubric would be awesome. Because not only could you compare teams in your own division, you could compare teams in other divisions against each other. There is no reason why a team in mini level 2, for example, should score higher than a team in senior 4. I understand that EP's use their scoring rubrics as competitive differentiation, but I have always found that to be ridiculous.

 

[WestCoastCheer]

I'm just curious, what's the harm in the entire audience (coaches, kids, fans) knowing who beat who on jumps, tumbling etc.?

I think the harm is adding to the already heated and controversial and yes gossipy nature that the sport of cheerleading has created. The overall score is for the audience and most EP publicly display their grids or scoring system to the general public. I just have not heard the clamor or demand from the general public that they want us to release our element evaluation sheets. More importantly I think many smaller struggling programs would be against this while many large successful programs would want the public release. (small gym versus large gym issue) This is definitely something we will consider doing in the future if the public demands it. So far the demand has not been there mainly because it is the coaches who really decide what the EPs do and the coaches have been happy with our current system.

 

[WestCoastCheer]

When will you put out a general schedule? still trying to make travel arrangements based on the General Schedule., thanks

A general schedule for JAMZ Allstar Nationals will be released on Wednesday, February 8, 2012. Please bear with us. We have had an incredible but (HAPPY) increase in teams this year which has made our scheduling more complex than in years past. Thanks for your patience.

 

[Mom Jeans]

yay for more teams^^^^^

 

[socratesofcheer]

I think the harm is adding to the already heated and controversial and yes gossipy nature that the sport of cheerleading has created. The overall score is for the audience and most EP publicly display their grids or scoring system to the general public. I just have not heard the clamor or demand from the general public that they want us to release our element evaluation sheets. More importantly I think many smaller struggling programs would be against this while many large successful programs would want the public release. (small gym versus large gym issue) This is definitely something we will consider doing in the future if the public demands it. So far the demand has not been there mainly because it is the coaches who really decide what the EPs do and the coaches have been happy with our current system.

I certainly understand and appreciate your comments. I guess I'm from the school of thought, that more information people receive, there would be less gossipy talk. If everyone can find out that team A scored higher in stunts, then maybe team B parents/fans would be less inclined to scream favoritism if they could see team A actually had better stunts. Thanks for your input, I appreciate seeing the EP side of discussions.

 

[SharkDad]

I think the harm is adding to the already heated and controversial and yes gossipy nature that the sport of cheerleading has created. The overall score is for the audience and most EP publicly display their grids or scoring system to the general public. I just have not heard the clamor or demand from the general public that they want us to release our element evaluation sheets. More importantly I think many smaller struggling programs would be against this while many large successful programs would want the public release. (small gym versus large gym issue) This is definitely something we will consider doing in the future if the public demands it. So far the demand has not been there mainly because it is the coaches who really decide what the EPs do and the coaches have been happy with our current system.

I'm curious where you hear that coaches are happy with the current system? If you ask them "do you like my event" in a social or the coaches party they will most likely politely answer yes.

The majority of feedback I have read or hear in personal conversations with athletes, coaches, some gym owners, other industry professionals and the "general public" (for some crazy reason lots of people talk to me about this stuff), MOST people would like to see completely open scoring, to include the element scores. I hear very consistently that should PREVENT the gossipy nature that is very prevalant in the sport of cheerleading.

I think that everyone should be realistic that this would have to be accomplished carefully, for instance with a quality check of math errors and coaches ability to dispute inaccuracies, but with a professional, realistic approach I would hasten to say this is one of the major things that people want to see.

 

[BlueCat]

I guess we have different viewpoints on the matter. I always think that the more secretive something is, the more shady it appears (assuming it isn't ACTUALLY shady). If the cries of favoritism/bias/etc are the "fire", then I view releasing more information as throwing water on that fire, not fuel.

 

[SharkDad]

I guess we have different viewpoints on the matter. I always think that the more secretive something is, the more shady it appears (assuming it isn't ACTUALLY shady). If the cries of favoritism/bias/etc are the "fire", then I view releasing more information as throwing water on that fire, not fuel.

I always say great minds think alike (congrats on the bid this weekend btw)

 

[newcheerdad]

I guess we have different viewpoints on the matter. I always think that the more secretive something is, the more shady it appears (assuming it isn't ACTUALLY shady). If the cries of favoritism/bias/etc are the "fire", then I view releasing more information as throwing water on that fire, not fuel.

I agree 1000% with this. Even sports like boxing, which have a very limited "scoresheet", use technology like CompuBox to give viewers a frame of reference for why a fight might be scored a certain way.

I don't understand the mindset that says that "more information" is bad, unless there's a reason why that information is undesirable to be released.

 

[alexamarysouza]

moving from a large, well know gym, to a small, less known gym was a real eye opener that team name is NOT the case. I figured that big name teams would beat my teams just because nobody knew who we were...no! We've actually beat many large gyms. Our J3 beat Rays @ Battle & got best of level 3. So it's clearly not about the name unless its a competition that winning team puts on...thats a different story...

 

[Mom Jeans]

At some point, someone with balls needs to just do it.

Where do you find someone like that? LOL

 

[ACEDAD]

Where do you find someone like that? LOL

It's difficult considering that I don't really want to look too closely.