All-Star "name" Of Gym Affecting Placement?

[PullandPray23]

I feel like most of the time it may be hard to see why team A beat team B but sometimes we are all left scratching our heads in pure confusion from the results...Ie. Smoed at worlds...

 

[BuegeSmalls]

This past week at UCA regionals the team that took 2nd dropped half of their opening stunts and the team that got 3rd hit everything, borh routines had the same difficulty IMO.

 

[CharlieCheers]

There were definitley times where we thought our team deserved it more than the other because they have a 'big name'. Not complaining, we ended up finally beating them in the end, but it was a struggle the hole season losing with a clean routine and watching them fall and beat us. When we had at least the same level of difficulty. But all judges are different.


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[CharlieCheers]

There were definitley times where we thought our team deserved it more than the other because they have a 'big name'. Not complaining, we ended up finally beating them in the end, but it was a struggle the hole season losing with a clean routine and watching them fall and beat us. When we had at least the same level of difficulty. But all judges are different.


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And these were big competitions too.


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[brandnewstyle]

it also bugs me when smaller gyms speculate that team a only beats them because they were more well known. sometimes even if they have stunts fall, they're still better than you

 

[KB_Legend]

They are heading in the right direction, certainly.

Just wondering, how are other coaches responding to this idea when you mention it to them? I know our program would be all for it... Is that generally the case among coaches and it's just the event producers that are holding it back? Or are many coaches against it for some reason too?

 

[ACEDAD]

Just wondering, how are other coaches responding to this idea when you mention it to them? I know our program would be all for it... Is that generally the case among coaches and it's just the event producers that are holding it back? Or are many coaches against it for some reason too?

There are a lot of coaches against it as well. One reason given is that it makes public a scoring edge that one team might have. For example, let's say Rays has a unique entry into a stunt that helps to max a certain score. Obviously people can see that, but getting the scores will likely confirm it and show exactly how much of a difference it makes.

 

[KB_Legend]

I totally understand that, but I think the whole "someone will steal our idea" thing is SO outdated! I fully understand not wanting people to see your material in the summer time, but by your first competition I believe any great new skill you have isn't going to be able to be reproduced in the two week break between competitions. Hasn't cheerleading gotten hard enough that when it comes to actual restricted skills (not choreography) if it's going to be really great it takes pretty much a whole season to commit to getting the skills down?

 

[hopskipandjump]

I dont necessarily believe it has to do with the name of the gym, but the number of teams the gym brings to the competition. If the gym with 20 teams keeps winning then they will be happy and they will keep coming back season after season paying for comp fees, spectator admission, food, dvds etc If the gym with 4 teams is unhappy, its not as big of a loss for the companies. I've only seen this done a couple of times, usually at a crap competition.

I was dropping off a registration to a company once and no one knew that I had come inside. While I was there, discussion was being held about a large program that was unhappy with the results of a recent competition and how they could correct the scores to reflect what that program felt should be the final results because they did not want to lose that many participants. Does it happen? Yes, having worked for an event producer and having been one, yes, it most certainly does. And while I say this, let me also add that there are event producers who do not do this. I suggest you look at where you compete and take everything with a grain of salt.

 

[socratesofcheer]

I would definitely say that a name affects placement. Generally "big name" gyms are better coached than the smaller gyms. That's why they are the big gyms. Judges get placements wrong from time to time, it happens. As far as gym name being the only reason that a team wins, is an easy way for a team to place blame on someone else instead of looking at their own inadequacies. People tend to forget there are several sections on a scoresheet, not just stunts.

 

[SheCheers]

I think that as parents and athletes not super educated on the score sheets and the weight of difficulty vs execution it's easy for them to see and believe that they were robbed of a victory over a team that looked sloppy or dropped or busted, etc. And early on in cp's cheer career I might've erroneously thought that a team beat us that was inferior. HOWEVER, I think we have all seen many situations where we just knew that the skills were matched...and/or the execution was better and the better team still lost. When we were at all-levels, i remember sitting through an awards ceremony before cp's team went on and overhearing some other teams' coach so confused at a result of a division he also was not affiliated with (i'm assuming since he was in the stands and not on the mat). it was a small gym with only 1 team attending all levels on a paid bid, vs a big gym that had several teams there. Actually that seemed to be a common theme at that comp...LOL...But i digress. this isn't really about a bunch of whiny/uneducated sore losers (which, of course do exist), it's something everyone has seen with their own eyes. Bottom line: make the score sheets public and almost all doubt could be erased.

 

[BlueCat]

I feel that the current system generally benefits the larger program. For example, CA can come home from a competition and compare all of the scoresheets of their 20+ teams and try to look at the trends of what is getting scored highly and what is not. We can look at this and adjust the routines of all of our teams. A gym with only 1 or 2 teams there simply does not have that opportunity.

If, however, everyone could see the scores from everyone's scoresheet, then this advantage would disappear. Everyone would be getting the same amount of information regardless of how big and powerful their program is.

 

[BlueCat]

I totally understand that, but I think the whole "someone will steal our idea" thing is SO outdated! I fully understand not wanting people to see your material in the summer time, but by your first competition I believe any great new skill you have isn't going to be able to be reproduced in the two week break between competitions. Hasn't cheerleading gotten hard enough that when it comes to actual restricted skills (not choreography) if it's going to be really great it takes pretty much a whole season to commit to getting the skills down?

It doesn't affect my opinion on this issue, but there are still teams that take skills/choreography that they see in other routines and incorporate them during the season. Prime example: last season, a Worlds team blatantly used a pyramid sequence from a fairly prominent team IN THEIR OWN division and put it in for Worlds. They still ended up being a top 10 team and hardly anyone criticized them for it.

 

[lakerfantlc]

While I pray this never happens, I am fairly certain that no one would admit it....it is the woes of a judged sport...but can I give you my experience from both sides? Before we went to Cali...we were always given the impression that Cali always won because of who they were. When we got to Cali Camarillo and I had my first parent meeting that talked about nutrition, exercise, building strong bodies etc.(because kids need a strong body to do these world routines)....then I witnessed the coaches work months on conditioning....I purchased tons of epsom salts etc...I now laugh when I hear teams complain that Cali wins because of their name..I know better....

 

[GreatWhite92]

It doesn't affect my opinion on this issue, but there are still teams that take skills/choreography that they see in other routines and incorporate them during the season. Prime example: last season, a Worlds team blatantly used a pyramid sequence from a fairly prominent team IN THEIR OWN division and put it in for Worlds. They still ended up being a top 10 team and hardly anyone criticized them for it.

I have a feeling I know who you are talking about because I remember watching and thinking wait a second, thats not their pyramid....