All-Star Nca Day 3 Updates (sunday)

[TheVipersMom]

Ok stunt difficulty

Cali had 8.8
Vipers had 8.7

We both have same execution score of .8

So technically Cali beat us by .10 in stunts so yes let's agree Cali stunts better.


Our stunt creativity was both 4.7 so we tied

Our pyramids we both 8.8 with a .8 execution so we tied there

Our pyramid creativity was both 4.8


Cal and Vipers both had the full difficulty toss score of 9

But we only had a .7 execution and they had .8

So yes Cali was better than us in tosses by .1

So there they are now ahead .2 of us

Standing tumbling we both got 8.9 difficulty
But we have better execution. Ours was .9
And theirs was .8

So we have better standing tumbling by .1


Running tumbling is the exact same difficulty score but we have better tumbling execution again because we have .9 and they have .8

So we have better running tumbling by .1

So they are better stunters/tossers
And we are better tumblers in both running and standing tumbling.

So as of now we are even. They outscored us .2 and we outscored them .2 in those categories so they are the same now and on an even playing field.



Now let's move on to jumps ... They have a 9 difficulty and so do we but we have a .8 execution and they have .7 and you can watch the videos to back that up as that is really easy short section to watch.

So great now vipers are ahead again by .1

Now move on to Dance
Cali had a great dance as it was the second highest scoring dance at 9.7

Vipers had the highest scoring dance of 9.8.

So now we are ahead again by by .1

So with dance and jumps we edged them out by .2

The over all and creatively scores are the same.


So if you don't agree with the placements watch our dance and jumps and their dance and jumps and you can see how we pulled ahead which I would believe is pretty accurate. We also have two jump sections so make sure you see them both. They are pretty spot on.

Hope this answers all your scoring questions



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[Cheer Dad]

This is like watching Dance Moms and now I'm wondering where my glass of wine is.

shoot I keep forgetting your old enough to drink


**i know the other sides story #connected**

 

[MaineStar234]

I believe the rumor was scoring/placement. I have no idea if this was the actual reason. The comeback to Texas routine was somewhere around 05 or 06, so this was awhile ago.

Who had the come back to Texas in their routine?


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[Just-a-Mom]

Well thank you so much for instructing me on the proper way to ask a question on a thread. I was responding as well to what was being thrown at me by all y'all. It makes me so so disappointed that this is what happens when someone shares a different opinion and doesn't sugar coat it on a board. We tell our kids to stand up for themselves and to speak their minds but as parents so many replicate the behaviors they would be mortified to have their children emanate or endure. Let me try to rephrase it nicely to make you happy..

Oh you would not believe what I kept hearing at NCA.. people were actually saying that Texas team edged out non-Texas teams in a lot of divisions when the scores were really really close. Do you think that's true? And people kept saying that due to all the weather challenges and flight cancellations NCA was scrambling to find judges and had to bring in a bunch of local judges from Texas that were biased to local teams and not qualified to be judging an event of this magnitude..that couldn't possibly be true right?? I see that a poster put up a pic of a very close R5 division that a lot of people have responded negatively to and that a texas team barely edged out another non-Texas team..this must just be a coincidence right? Even that Viper mom poster said lots and lots and lots of people are saying they shouldn't of won and this is only one division in question. If one of you has a few minutes of spare time could you pretty please explain to me how that could happen when the team they beat out after I watched the videos was equally as incredible and some might even say better than the one that won and the team that got third delivered an incredible performance on day 2 - too. They were simply fantastic. That viper team had huge deductions on day 1..how could they of come back from something like that to rise up so high? Now here are lots of smiley faces to make sure my tone is not misconstrued...

Is that what you would prefer in the future @luv2cheer92 ?

Because "incredible" isn't technically on the score sheet. Their raw score was higher. They fixed whatever was wrong and hit the score sheet harder on day 2. Day 2 is 75% vs day 1 which is only 25%. Mathematically this means that a small increase in score from day 1 to day 2 means a big increase in overall score because the day 2 score means more.

Everyone can be "incredible" - both teams hit 0 on day 2. But the first place team had a higher raw score. I don't understand what this has to do with Texas. Maybe their coaches just know the score sheet really well and know what hits the score sheet.

If every single division was won by Texas teams, I could see what you're saying.

If Cheetahs had won, I could MAYBE see your point.

If Pumas weren't way down at the bottom of that R5 list, below plenty of non-Texas teams... Maybe I'd start to see.

If Vipers hadn't won anything all season until they came to NCA, possibly.

Still probably no, but at least MAYBE I could see why someone would think it's a Texas thing.

But none of those things happened, so your Texas theory does not hold water, plain and simple.

If judges were going to be biased towards Texas, don't you think LC might be a division that would happen in? (not meant to slight any other divisions, just saying that I hardly think there is some big huge conspiracy to give Stars Vipers a jacket in R5, but not CA in LC!)


ETA I see kris10 broke it down in more detail and I see that you have slow mo watched the video to see if they should have had deductions. Have you watched every routine from the whole 2-day competition to make sure that the judges ONLY missed deductions from Texas teams? Or just the one Vipers video?

 

[quitthedrama]

You had a bad stunt fall... a bunch of wobbly ones if my memories correct and think you had someone fall to their knees in jumps to tuck?

You also had a stunt wobble on the far right Day 2 and you have a male tumbler that clearly goes out of bounds with both feet as he lands a tumbling pass.. also on the right side and on Day 2. That's just what I caught from watching your day 2 video now... I may of missed any other number of issues. I'm not a judge after all. Oh wait.. I see your team got ZERO deductions on day 2. My eyes must be playing tricks on me and I must be seeing something different than the judges did. So sorry. I still don't understand why the team in 2nd dropped to third? I think that was Rockstar? Your team was VERY GOOD.. just not good enough to jump from 5th to 1st over many other great teams that delivered on day 2 and started in a higher placement. But again..not a judge. Can we just move on from this though. I really don't want to play tit for tat.

Congrats to your team and athletes and hopefully all the teams get a rematch at Summit. Im thinking I should definitely order cases of Florida water before that comp for our gym..

Please learn the rules before you start handing out deductions. There were no deductions in that routine day 2.

 

[luv2cheer92]

Who had the come back to Texas in their routine?


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WCSS

 

[TheVipersMom]

You had a bad stunt fall... a bunch of wobbly ones if my memories correct and think you had someone fall to their knees in jumps to tuck?

You also had a stunt wobble on the far right Day 2 and you have a male tumbler that clearly goes out of bounds with both feet as he lands a tumbling pass.. also on the right side and on Day 2. That's just what I caught from watching your day 2 video now... I may of missed any other number of issues. I'm not a judge after all. Oh wait.. I see your team got ZERO deductions on day 2. My eyes must be playing tricks on me and I must be seeing something different than the judges did. So sorry. I still don't understand why the team in 2nd dropped to third? I think that was Rockstar? Your team was VERY GOOD.. just not good enough to jump from 5th to 1st over many other great teams that delivered on day 2 and started in a higher placement. But again..not a judge. Can we just move on from this though. I really don't want to play tit for tat.

Congrats to your team and athletes and hopefully all the teams get a rematch at Summit. Im thinking I should definitely order cases of Florida water before that comp for our gym..

The stunt that "wobbled" that clearly wasn't a bobble likely effected our execution score as you could see they did outscore us in stunts overall still

You clearly don't know the definition of OOB


On day 1 we did not have a touchdown. We had one stunt fall, and ..... You still haven't mentioned the other thing.

Maybe you are mixing teams up.


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[luv2cheer92]

You had a bad stunt fall... a bunch of wobbly ones if my memories correct and think you had someone fall to their knees in jumps to tuck?

You also had a stunt wobble on the far right Day 2 and you have a male tumbler that clearly goes out of bounds with both feet as he lands a tumbling pass.. also on the right side and on Day 2. That's just what I caught from watching your day 2 video now... I may of missed any other number of issues. I'm not a judge after all. Oh wait.. I see your team got ZERO deductions on day 2. My eyes must be playing tricks on me and I must be seeing something different than the judges did. So sorry. I still don't understand why the team in 2nd dropped to third? I think that was Rockstar? Your team was VERY GOOD.. just not good enough to jump from 5th to 1st over many other great teams that delivered on day 2 and started in a higher placement. But again..not a judge. Can we just move on from this though. I really don't want to play tit for tat.

Congrats to your team and athletes and hopefully all the teams get a rematch at Summit. Im thinking I should definitely order cases of Florida water before that comp for our gym..

You are aware that the red cover that goes around the mat is not considered out of bounds right? A lot of people make that mistake so I just want to make sure (genuinely, not being rude), because the guy tumbler clearly did not go out of bounds. The score breakdown was done very nicely so I will not comment on that from a previous post.

 

[cheermommaRN]

What I find hilarious is that NO ONE is addressing the actual issue with the scoring. AGAIN I ask...how does one team hit a perfect clean routine and get 0.8 on execution and then team 2 goes out almost drops stunts, has tumblers to their knees and yet scores the exact same 0.8 on execution for those areas?? Anyone? Because that is what I was seeing this weekend when score sheets were posted.
How do you have two teams whose breakdown scores are literally IDENTICAL yet team #1 scores 2 whole points higher than team #2?
I don't give rats booty about people thinking its a TX favoritism thing and that thinking is not old in the least. The fact everyone is getting their panties in a twist about it is laughable because it comes up EVERY YEAR!!
It's also funny that the people who are defending the scoring the most are the ones that benefited highly from it. A dance should not determine who is technically the best and if that's the case then they need to start sending jackets and rings to those choreographers along with the coaches of the team.
@12stepCheermom I completely agree on your point, some people on here appear to be untouchable...must be nice. If I had said half the stuff Kris has I would be racking up the negative ratings. Maybe I need to go against my usual rule ands start hitting the button?

 

[12stepCheermom]

This is where I'm gonna need y'all to just fall over laughing and virtually high five me. The last 4-5 responses in my head (that top ten list I can never use) have been SPOT. ON.

I'll be here all week.

Sadly, I'll only be here in my head. Which may, in fact, make me mentally unstable. But, do carry on! I'm looking forward to my next silent zinger!

 

[CindyLou22]

What I find hilarious is that NO ONE is addressing the actual issue with the scoring. AGAIN I ask...how does one team hit a perfect clean routine and get 0.8 on execution and then team 2 goes out almost drops stunts, has tumblers to their knees and yet scores the exact same 0.8 on execution for those areas?? Anyone? Because that is what I was seeing this weekend when score sheets were posted.
How do you have two teams whose breakdown scores are literally IDENTICAL yet team #1 scores 2 whole points higher than team #2?
I don't give rats booty about people thinking its a TX favoritism thing and that thinking is not old in the least. The fact everyone is getting their panties in a twist about it is laughable because it comes up EVERY YEAR!!
It's also funny that the people who are defending the scoring the most are the ones that benefited highly from it. A dance should not determine who is technically the best and if that's the case then they need to start sending jackets and rings to those choreographers along with the coaches of the team.
@12stepCheermom I completely agree on your point, some people on here appear to be untouchable...must be nice. If I had said half the stuff Kris has I would be racking up the negative ratings. Maybe I need to go against my usual rule ands start hitting the button?

I wish I could hit shimmy 27 times.

 

[cheerKT]

What I find hilarious is that NO ONE is addressing the actual issue with the scoring. AGAIN I ask...how does one team hit a perfect clean routine and get 0.8 on execution and then team 2 goes out almost drops stunts, has tumblers to their knees and yet scores the exact same 0.8 on execution for those areas?? Anyone? Because that is what I was seeing this weekend when score sheets were posted.
How do you have two teams whose breakdown scores are literally IDENTICAL yet team #1 scores 2 whole points higher than team #2?
I don't give rats booty about people thinking its a TX favoritism thing and that thinking is not old in the least. The fact everyone is getting their panties in a twist about it is laughable because it comes up EVERY YEAR!!
It's also funny that the people who are defending the scoring the most are the ones that benefited highly from it. A dance should not determine who is technically the best and if that's the case then they need to start sending jackets and rings to those choreographers along with the coaches of the team.
@12stepCheermom I completely agree on your point, some people on here appear to be untouchable...must be nice. If I had said half the stuff Kris has I would be racking up the negative ratings. Maybe I need to go against my usual rule ands start hitting the button?

I don't pretend to be a scoring expert but I think I can speak to your first point. Generally, judges will not take off on execution if you're already getting deducted in the area. If you're already losing points for the drop or the touch down, it's "double dipping" to mark you off execution as well.

Please someone correct me if I'm wrong here. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but I believe it's frowned upon and EPs try to away from it.

 

[12stepCheermom]

What I find hilarious is that NO ONE is addressing the actual issue with the scoring. AGAIN I ask...how does one team hit a perfect clean routine and get 0.8 on execution and then team 2 goes out almost drops stunts, has tumblers to their knees and yet scores the exact same 0.8 on execution for those areas?? Anyone? Because that is what I was seeing this weekend when score sheets were posted.
How do you have two teams whose breakdown scores are literally IDENTICAL yet team #1 scores 2 whole points higher than team #2?
I don't give rats booty about people thinking its a TX favoritism thing and that thinking is not old in the least. The fact everyone is getting their panties in a twist about it is laughable because it comes up EVERY YEAR!!
It's also funny that the people who are defending the scoring the most are the ones that benefited highly from it. A dance should not determine who is technically the best and if that's the case then they need to start sending jackets and rings to those choreographers along with the coaches of the team.
@12stepCheermom I completely agree on your point, some people on here appear to be untouchable...must be nice. If I had said half the stuff Kris has I would be racking up the negative ratings. Maybe I need to go against my usual rule ands start hitting the button?

THIS.

I saw teams with considerably less tumbling skills in the routine get a higher raw score for tumbling than teams that had many more skills and executed with much better technique. I'm thinking of two divisions specifically, neither are the one being debated here. I saw two teams with essentially all the same elements and one teams raw score was almost two whole points higher than the other one (maybe we're talking about the same team). That's the stuff I didn't get. Deductions are deductions. But if ever we needed some code of points or something, I saw that this weekend.

Not that I'd have any idea how to accomplish such a thing, but I think outside of deductions which is something everyone sees, the scoring processes that make the real difference (how you arrive at .7 or .8 etc are where championships are own or lost.

 

[12stepCheermom]

I don't pretend to be a scoring expert but I think I can speak to your first point. Generally, judges will not take off on execution if you're already getting deducted in the area. If you're already losing points for the drop or the touch down, it's "double dipping" to mark you off execution as well.

Please someone correct me if I'm wrong here. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but I believe it's frowned upon and most EPs stay away from it.

Jamfest does. Because I think it's double jeopardy but varsity judges do not as I understand it.

 

[flcheermom]

I get it. People were lighting up cp16's team on twitter saying they didn't deserve to get paid because they were 9th place and basically making fun of them publically. I get that it can be hard to read that stuff, and that IS my kid they were talking about. Which makes it extra hard because were invested in our kids and we know what they've been through and overcome to get where they are (I don't mean RoyalCats specifically but all teams have a story). I had several things I wanted to say, and did say privately. So did he.

I'm just impressed that for as quick as the boards can be to jump someone (and not be polite in doing so) you've managed to figure out how to say whatever you like and not have that happen. That's a skill I don't have.

Maybe it's because you're from Texas.

(That was a joke)

This has nothing to do with what is being talked about right now - but I can relate so much to this because my daughter has re-joined cheer (international team - new team) and her team isn't at the level of what she has been used to in the past - but I can say that there is so much that has gone on to even get the team to this point, that looking from the outside one could absolutely say negative things when they see them perform. They have pressed on and continued and hopefully this year has been a learning experience for the future.