High School New Program Structure Advice

[oncecoolcoachnowmom]

^^^^^^Seriously?

 

[OldskoolKYcheercoach]

^^^^^^Seriously?

Am I going to have a problem in my program if everyone I keep getting from the feeder system is below average in size? meh, I dunno. I do know it's much, much easier to develop stunting skills when there is a size variance among the team.

Do I really blame it on Michelle Obama's nutritional plan? No, not really, but it made me chuckle to type it. I actually am suspicious that the bigger girls are getting screened out by the middle school coaches because they cannot tumble.

Do I think Michelle Obama's nutritional plan is a travesty? Absolutely, just like everything else this administration has done. However, it's not within the scope of this board, nor do I feel like arguing about the failures of the oval office. What I do see, is that rather than eating disgusting "healthy" food served by the school, my athletes (and the other athletes in the school) are starving themselves all day long, and then binge-eating the junk in the vending machines just prior to practice. Which means I get about 30-60 minutes of useful practice time out of them before their blood sugar crashes from the insulin rush triggered by all of the processed carbs in the vending machine food.

 

[Alexx]

Am I going to have a problem in my program if everyone I keep getting from the feeder system is below average in size? meh, I dunno. I do know it's much, much easier to develop stunting skills when there is a size variance among the team.

Do I really blame it on Michelle Obama's nutritional plan? No, not really, but it made me chuckle to type it. I actually am suspicious that the bigger girls are getting screened out by the middle school coaches because they cannot tumble.

Do I think Michelle Obama's nutritional plan is a travesty? Absolutely, just like everything else this administration has done. However, it's not within the scope of this board, nor do I feel like arguing about the failures of the oval office. What I do see, is that rather than eating disgusting "healthy" food served by the school, my athletes (and the other athletes in the school) are starving themselves all day long, and then binge-eating the junk in the vending machines just prior to practice. Which means I get about 30-60 minutes of useful practice time out of them before their blood sugar crashes from the insulin rush triggered by all of the processed carbs in the vending machine food.

Then thats on your athletes. They could bring a healthy lunch and healthy snacks to eat before practice. If they choose not to, not the school or the Obama's fault. Its not hard to pick healthy food.

 

[cheerisloving]

@Tealxblack25

My HS coach had similar issues. She decided to have a smaller team with majority tumbling to compensate for one or two girls without tumbling and wouldn't get tumbling. I don't know what your score sheet requires, but that's an option.

Because of our tryout numbers, a girl without a back handspring but was a BEAST back could make our team no problem. But now that we have more girls, that girl with no tumbling might be an alternate if someone better comes a long. We didn't get too many girls with tumbling-and while we had a coach who could back, our coach required girls to go to a tumbling class and learn there before coming to practice for light spots.

No one would make JV because they didn't tumble especially if they were on Varsity. Can you have girls cheer game day and not compete?

 

[gymcatmomx2]

I'll agree about stunting being easier to teach initially, but the truly elite skills take a long time to develop. Having a base or a back with significant strength is a commodity.

I don't know what's going on in my area, but all the incoming kids I've had for two years have been average to pint-sized. I need some big-bad-mamas, and I'm not getting them from anywhere.

I blame it on Michelle Obama's scholastic nutrition travesty.

I am not sure by what you mean by "truly elite skills" with regard to high school cheer teams. For most high schools, the level of elite skills, whether it be tumbling or stunts, do not come even remotely close to the level of all-star. As for the need for "big-bad-mamas", that isn't necessary either. My youngest CP is a beast main base and is 5'2" and weighs 106lbs. Last season she based a flyer that had her by 30 pounds at least. She could easily be a flyer for the school squad, but because she is such a good base, they want her on the ground. One of my oldest CP's friends is a flyer for her college (a very competitive team), but she also bases on her all-star team - and she is 4'11" and weighs maybe 100lbs. There was a girl on my oldest CP's high school team that was 5'10" and was a good size girl. She should have been a great backspot or base, but she refused to learn how to stunt, and was a front spot for all 4 years of high school. Size is just a number and you can't predict the success of a team by the size of the athletes.

 

[OldskoolKYcheercoach]

I am not sure by what you mean by "truly elite skills" with regard to high school cheer teams. For most high schools, the level of elite skills, whether it be tumbling or stunts, do not come even remotely close to the level of all-star. As for the need for "big-bad-mamas", that isn't necessary either. My youngest CP is a beast main base and is 5'2" and weighs 106lbs. Last season she based a flyer that had her by 30 pounds at least. She could easily be a flyer for the school squad, but because she is such a good base, they want her on the ground. One of my oldest CP's friends is a flyer for her college (a very competitive team), but she also bases on her all-star team - and she is 4'11" and weighs maybe 100lbs. There was a girl on my oldest CP's high school team that was 5'10" and was a good size girl. She should have been a great backspot or base, but she refused to learn how to stunt, and was a front spot for all 4 years of high school. Size is just a number and you can't predict the success of a team by the size of the athletes.

I didn't say it couldn't be done, I said it was easier. Just like it's easier to teach a football player who lifts four days a week to coed stunt than it is to teach a male cross country runner, The caveat is that the desire has to be there, or it doesn't work for anyone.

ETA: you cannot compare high school to all star in that discussion. First, many of the top high school teams could stunt with any all star team you mention, but the rules are different. Second, there are just as many senior level all star teams out there with 12 year olds on their team for no other reason than those kids are 75 pounds.

If you really think "size is just a number," coach a team and put a 200 pound girl up on a couple of your 4' 11" bases that you're so proud of and let me know how many trips to the hospital that generates.

 

[gymcatmomx2]

I didn't say it couldn't be done, I said it was easier. Just like it's easier to teach a football player who lifts four days a week to coed stunt than it is to teach a male cross country runner, The caveat is that the desire has to be there, or it doesn't work for anyone.

ETA: you cannot compare high school to all star in that discussion. First, many of the top high school teams could stunt with any all star team you mention, but the rules are different. Second, there are just as many senior level all star teams out there with 12 year olds on their team for no other reason than those kids are 75 pounds.

If you really think "size is just a number," coach a team and put a 200 pound girl up on a couple of your 4' 11" bases that you're so proud of and let me know how many trips to the hospital that generates.

Some of your posts are now verging on the rediculous. Blaming Michelle Obama for your athletes not making the right food choices and putting a 200 pound girl up in the air. Yes, both of those sound extremely plausible.

 

[Tealxblack25]

Lets keep the political conversation to a dull roar.. or just not at all lol

 

[OldskoolKYcheercoach]

Some of your posts are now verging on the rediculous. Blaming Michelle Obama for your athletes not making the right food choices and putting a 200 pound girl up in the air. Yes, both of those sound extremely plausible.

Sarcasm

 

[AScheer]

I am not sure by what you mean by "truly elite skills" with regard to high school cheer teams. For most high schools, the level of elite skills, whether it be tumbling or stunts, do not come even remotely close to the level of all-star. As for the need for "big-bad-mamas", that isn't necessary either. My youngest CP is a beast main base and is 5'2" and weighs 106lbs. Last season she based a flyer that had her by 30 pounds at least. She could easily be a flyer for the school squad, but because she is such a good base, they want her on the ground. One of my oldest CP's friends is a flyer for her college (a very competitive team), but she also bases on her all-star team - and she is 4'11" and weighs maybe 100lbs. There was a girl on my oldest CP's high school team that was 5'10" and was a good size girl. She should have been a great backspot or base, but she refused to learn how to stunt, and was a front spot for all 4 years of high school. Size is just a number and you can't predict the success of a team by the size of the athletes.

200 lb flyers and Michelle Obama aside (I have my own opinions about that nasty food, but it isn't relevant to the conversation), I have to back @OldskoolKYcheercoach. I don't know where he coaches, but I know he's in Kentucky and goes to UCA Nationals. KY has some of the best stunting teams in the nation, so "truly elite skills" don't compare to your most or average category. We're not talking libs and switch-ups which an average high school team will shoot for. We're talking truly elite skills that we don't have time for them to work towards all season, we need them perfected by fall. I think you're in Texas? There are some top level high school teams there too. They could definitely out stunt many/most allstar teams and with flyers who aren't 10-12. Somethings they aren't legally allowed to do, but it doesn't mean they physically can't. Your examples are great, but are also not the "norm." There are always exceptions, but they are not the rule.

True fact, it is much easier to work with a diverse group of girls. It goes in waves, some years all little people will show up, some years all big. I had a JV team of 12 a long time ago that was pretty much identical in size. They were a very weak stunting team because of it. Who lifts who? And who is the back, because no one can reach. I'm 5'2 and there was only one girl slightly taller than me. Everyone else was 5'0 and 5'1. Having a range of heights and sizes helps tremendously! This years tryout was full of little people. Talented littles were cut while less talented tall girls made it. I don't need 10 flyers, I don't need 10 groups of little bases, I NEED back spots! If you were taller or bigger this year your chances went up tremendously. A few years ago was the opposite. Anyone that was little stood a much greater chance because the majority in the room weren't.

Football teams can't have all linemen, who will run the ball? They also can't have all running backs or quarter backs, who will block? Size matters.

 

[OldskoolKYcheercoach]

200 lb flyers and Michelle Obama aside (I have my own opinions about that nasty food, but it isn't relevant to the conversation), I have to back @OldskoolKYcheercoach. I don't know where he coaches, but I know he's in Kentucky and goes to UCA Nationals. KY has some of the best stunting teams in the nation, so "truly elite skills" don't compare to your most or average category. We're not talking libs and switch-ups which an average high school team will shoot for. We're talking truly elite skills that we don't have time for them to work towards all season, we need them perfected by fall. I think you're in Texas? There are some top level high school teams there too. They could definitely out stunt many/most allstar teams and with flyers who aren't 10-12. Somethings they aren't legally allowed to do, but it doesn't mean they physically can't. Your examples are great, but are also not the "norm." There are always exceptions, but they are not the rule.

True fact, it is much easier to work with a diverse group of girls. It goes in waves, some years all little people will show up, some years all big. I had a JV team of 12 a long time ago that was pretty much identical in size. They were a very weak stunting team because of it. Who lifts who? And who is the back, because no one can reach. I'm 5'2 and there was only one girl slightly taller than me. Everyone else was 5'0 and 5'1. Having a range of heights and sizes helps tremendously! This years tryout was full of little people. Talented littles were cut while less talented tall girls made it. I don't need 10 flyers, I don't need 10 groups of little bases, I NEED back spots! If you were taller or bigger this year your chances went up tremendously. A few years ago was the opposite. Anyone that was little stood a much greater chance because the majority in the room weren't.

Football teams can't have all linemen, who will run the ball? They also can't have all running backs or quarter backs, who will block? Size matters.

Thanks for the support. My sarcasm gets lost in here some days. Maybe I shouldn't have posted so close to the end of my work-weekend. That's when the truly cynical side of me comes out.

 

[oncecoolcoachnowmom]

I have always been pretty lucky in the back spot department, so I can't complain.

I have had years where I have really had to develop some base talent, though.

 

[OldskoolKYcheercoach]

I have always been pretty lucky in the back spot department, so I can't complain.

I have had years where I have really had to develop some base talent, though.

Would you agree that it is partially a function of mathematics? You need twice as many bases as you do backs and flyers.

 

[oncecoolcoachnowmom]

Would you agree that it is partially a function of mathematics? You need twice as many bases as you do backs and flyers.

Yes!

...and somehow I always seem to to have exponentially more flyers than I need, haha. (Thankfully a good number of them can do both, so it works out because they end up basing and doing well.)

 

[SparkleSpankies]

Yes!

...and somehow I always seem to to have exponentially more flyers than I need, haha. (Thankfully a good number of them can do both, so it works out because they end up basing and doing well.)

AND I am desperate for true flyers, especially for JV!!! I need flyers, and not just smaller girls then the rest... LOL