All-Star Not A Rule... But Request It From Event Producers: Combine Large And Small Gym

[hopskipandjump]

Lol. Sure, its a great idea in theory, but no one follows it now (the 75 and under athletes guideline).

 

[King]

Lol. Sure, its a great idea in theory, but no one follows it now (the 75 and under athletes guideline).

Come the athlete registration system, this will be a possibility.

 

[hopskipandjump]

Come the athlete registration system, this will be a possibility.

ooh ooh oh. question for you if you know it? Why does the Mini division exclude the use of Small and Large Gym separation at events? As I said, the Mini 1 division is usually huge.

 

[King]

ooh ooh oh. question for you if you know it? Why does the Mini division exclude the use of Small and Large Gym separation at events? As I said, the Mini 1 division is usually huge.

because the mini division is probably the MOST level playing field in cheer. 95% of our mini 1 team has never cheered before. 4 years running (we either graduate them up to level 2, age out, OR cheer just wasnt for them). So every year maybe have 1 or 2 girl returners. If you found 15 girls who have never cheer before and we have 15 girls who have never cheered before gym size doesnt really matter.

 

[Deleted member 382]

I think Jamfest Super Nationals is spliting small gym/large gym for mini 1.

 

[Mrs.CheerExtreme]

To quote Kevin Brubaker (again badly): If you want a National Championship jacket send me your address and ill send you one.

Event producers have no problem giving away trophies, and that is perfectly awesome. Let us create the system to ALWAYS encourage small gyms to go to a competition. No if 4 teams are there then you can offer a small gym award. Every division will have a small gym and large gym winner if they exist in the division. At the end of the day the kids will know the score, who won overall. Small gyms can be very happy cause they can say they got first for small gym, and 10th overall. Kinda like how I was excited, when I ran a half marathon, that even though I finished 4,000th for the race, I finished 300th for my age group (and 1st for my weight class). But we ALL competed at the same time, together.

I can't quote anybody because I don't remember who said it, but someone in the meeting mentioned the fact that we want people to think that we're an actual sport and their brother-in-law or something thought it was ridiculous that we go to 2 day competitions and don't compete against anybody and then get a national champion hoody. Yes the kids might know, but the other people won't and if we want people to understand what we do then maybe its not such a good idea. I thought the whole point of making large teams 30 was so that there would be more competition like there used to be. If you're going to split the gyms at the end anyways then why even combine them? Most competition company's have level winners, isn't that almost the same thing (and everyone really is competing at the same time for this award)?

 

[King]

I can't quote anybody because I don't remember who said it, but someone in the meeting mentioned the fact that we want people to think that we're an actual sport and their brother-in-law or something thought it was ridiculous that we go to 2 day competitions and don't compete against anybody and then get a national champion hoody. Yes the kids might know, but the other people won't and if we want people to understand what we do then maybe its not such a good idea. I thought the whole point of making large teams 30 was so that there would be more competition like there used to be. If you're going to split the gyms at the end anyways then why even combine them? Most competition company's have level winners, isn't that almost the same thing (and everyone really is competing at the same time for this award)?

Did you understand the marathon reference? That pretty much sums up the idea. Everyone at a marathon is competing at the same time, all with eachother. And then after the BIG winner, there is winners per class. So this isnt a radical not done before idea. It is one done by another sport.

 

[a nICE mom]

Small gyms have such a wide range of skill levels on their teams, and tend to put their teams in the highest possible level. They want to offer more to their more skilled athletes, rather than lose them to a large gym. It's too bad all the glory seems to be in level 5. If teams were in divisions true to their actual skill level, small gym/large gym wouldn't be necessary.

 

[specialtpass]

Still digesting and pondering on the meeting. I saw such a shift in attitude and general mood from past meetings. I was pleasantly surprised but it is mixed with a healthy dose of cautious. When the suggestion of awarding a first place recognition to Small Gyms was put out there it was like the moths running to the flame. The poor guy (bad with the names, sorry) representing the Small Gym perspective had his legs taken right out. His face was like WHATTT!!!.

 

[hopskipandjump]

because the mini division is probably the MOST level playing field in cheer. 95% of our mini 1 team has never cheered before. 4 years running (we either graduate them up to level 2, age out, OR cheer just wasnt for them). So every year maybe have 1 or 2 girl returners. If you found 15 girls who have never cheer before and we have 15 girls who have never cheered before gym size doesnt really matter.

thank you.

 

[Num1Stunta]

Wonderful idea brought up during the debate was that divisions would never be split by large and small gym. Instead any division with a gym that qualifies as a small gym there would be two 1st places issued: one for large gym and one for small. Gyms would compete all against eachother and see how the score stacks up, but could win for their division. This is very similar to marathons. Evenone races together, and there is one overall winner, but you might go ahead and win your age group.

Less dividing of teams but still recognition for a small gym and their placement.

As someone who comes from a gym of less than 60 kids, and spent a whole season getting second place last year to larger gyms, I LOVE this idea. My kids would definitely be alot more confident knowing they were "small gym" high point

 

[Deleted member 382]

Did you understand the marathon reference? That pretty much sums up the idea. Everyone at a marathon is competing at the same time, all with eachother. And then after the BIG winner, there is winners per class. So this isnt a radical not done before idea. It is one done by another sport.

But, if your marathon ended up only being two people in your class, what is the point of breaking the class further up into "guys under 30 and guys over 30"?

I am not opposed to this if there is still competition. Just like I am not oppose to breaking up divisions small and large if there is enough teams that both the small and large division has at least two teams in it. I just don't like the idea of always splitting small gym and large gym. I am concerned that this is going to further decrease the amount of competition locally. (Maybe it is becasue local competition is so lacking in our area.)

I know around here at the local competitions they ask teams if they would like to switch/combine divisions just so teams have competition (so a youth 3 team may compete jr 3 or a small team may ask to combine with large teams). Would the small gym and large gym have this option if there were only two teams in the division?

 

[King]

But, if your marathon ended up only being two people in your class, what is the point of breaking the class further up into "guys under 30 and guys over 30"?

I am not opposed to this if there is still competition. Just like I am not oppose to breaking up divisions small and large if there is enough teams that both the small and large division has at least two teams in it. I just don't like the idea of always splitting small gym and large gym. I am concerned that this is going to further decrease the amount of competition locally. (Maybe it is becasue local competition is so lacking in our area.)

I know around here at the local competitions they ask teams if they would like to switch/combine divisions just so teams have competition (so a youth 3 team may compete jr 3 or a small team may ask to combine with large teams). Would the small gym and large gym have this option if there were only two teams in the division?

I dont see how everyone competing in the same division 'breaks up' the competition?

 

[specialtpass]

For competition companies this is a great way to entice gyms who may avoid certain competitions. I see the high point recognition as an incentive and goal the Small Gym can give their teams and parents to shoot for. It would be an achievement. Of course everyone will know who the overall winner is. On any given day it very well could be the Small Gym. As a parent I would love to know my childs team is in warm ups and side by side with some of the best teams in the country. That's huge. To have a Big Gym like World Cup or Stingrays etc clapping and congratulating you sends the message "come on in the the waters fine".

 

[Deleted member 382]

I dont see how everyone competing in the same division 'breaks up' the competition?

As I said, most local competitions that we go to have 2-3 teams in a division. If my daughter is in youth 2 and they divide the competition into two small youth 2 and two large youth 2 and then the small youth 2 division is further garenteed that there will be one "winner" for the small gym and one "winner" for the large gym, who did she really compete against? They could hit the routine of their lives and get first. They could drop every stunt and get first. At that point it was practice in front of people.

Maybe youth 2 is a bad example because you are ususally going to see a few teams in that division. My gym's junior 5 team last season exhibitioned at almost every local competition they went to because there were no other junior level 5 teams at the competition. The parents hated it. It would be sad if the ONE local competition that they went to and had a team to compete against in their division ended up being a small gym and again it didn't matter how they performed, the outcome was predetermined.

I feel like too often teams win first place for simply showing up and I feel that this would increase that problem.