All-Star Number Of Crossovers/stacking Teams

[WCMAN]

It's not really as simple as becoming a member and voting - like you said it's the electorate. The member gyms vote on how they think the decisions should be made and then the USASF does whatever it gosh darn well pleases anyway. And no I'm not a member obviously, but I do remember last year everyone getting quite upset over the rules - and how they all voted and then we waited for what felt like 6 months for the USASF people to finish arguing about the new rules before we could actually see them. Instead of just going with the vote. Why have the vote in the first place???


Now as for the original topic, I HATE crossovers that are there for the purpose of stacking a team for skill level. However, I don't think this happens nearly as often as people think. Are there a LOT of athletes crossing down onto lower level teams? Yes. But more often I think it's to change the division of that team (from small to large or all girl to coed) then to stack the team skill-wise. Or just to make the team more competitive in their division. For example a large team with 24 kids might add 8 crossovers to make it 32 - much better looking on the floor IMO.

For example we have some kids on our Level 5 team that cross over to my daughters Senior 3 team (which is the lowest level senior team we have). But it's to make the team have 32 kids and Coed. Also, it's not the girls that are working doubles that are crossing over. It's kids who are probably actually Level 4 (which we don't have), so they are getting the best of both worlds - a team that they are truly the best, and a team where they are learning higher level skills. I don't consider this "stacking" - I consider it making our team competitive - since we also have some level 1 and 2 kids on there!

(***sorry if this doesn't make sense...I'm going on about 2 hours of sleep! )

As you said,The 8 girls make you look better. How about the team your going against stays with the original 24 girls and does not take 8 level 5 girls. Than advantage goes to you. What does not seem like an advantage to you definitely would if the shoe was on the other foot. Just my opinion

 

[Kohke]

Mass amounts of crossovers provide no gym longevity.

Cross overs dont necessarily bother me because I know some kids are gym rats and WANT to be on more than one team,and it is a business, right? However, i think when it's all said and done if your program of 7 teams only taught 6 flyers how to do anything, you are not providing a quality service.

Even though everyone likes winning, how long will a family pay thousands of dollars to watch their kid stand behind a girl who is already front center for 3 other routines? Not long I hope! Be smart consumers!

 

[MomOf2ThatsMe]

To me it is almost crossing "down" so to speak. This subject is a massive pet peave of mine. Crossovers are being abused. As someone above said, a level 5 athlete crossing down to a level 2 will make that front walkover ROBHS look flawless.I personally don't have a problem with any team having any % of crossovers. A team could be 100% crossovers for all I care. It is what level they come from that bugs me. I really think with the athlete registration you should have to register as a level and you get one level up or down to compete as. My CP would be registered as a 2, and she could compete on a level 3 or level 1 as well. There is no need for level 5 athletes to be on a 2, or level 3 or 4's to be on a level 1. I feel like level 1 should be particularly guarded, especially from youth ages and up.

 

[MissCongeniality]

There's another problem with crossovers as well---- When a child who crosses to 2 or 3 teams and gets injured in one of the earlier routines. Then the later (typically higher level) routines are left with an athlete who is competing either a) not at full strength due to injury and/or emotional distress or b) not at all. Stinks to be the athlete on the level 5 team going for a bid when you now have teammates who aren't at 100% because they hurt themself doing the level [fill in the blank] routine earlier in the day.

I am not opposed to crossovers. They serve a need. But I do think it is abused in many cases.

 

[CoachTamara]

At the competition we went to this Saturday, my youth 1 went against another youth 1. Due to crossovers, the level 4 teams went first for the day, then they started with level 1 competition. I watched 5 girls walk off a senior level 4 team and compete on a youth 1 team. Then I watched another 10 of them compete AGAIN on youth 2. We have two crossovers in our entire gym, and I'm sorry, but you cannot tell me level 4 kids are doing the "same skills" and are fair in level 1. My kids are usually first year cheerleaders, not kids that have standing tucks and layouts.
I'd love to find out why my team lost to another team (not said team above-it was obvious why we lost to them), but I can't even find a hint of the competition on their website now. Where the performance order was posted, the entire competition information is gone. Unreal.

 

[MomNBlue&Green]

We have been at a very small gym with many crossovers and now at a large gym that does not use any crossovers with the exception of injuries, etc... Crossovers drive me crazy personally. When your level 4 team is made up of half of the kids on your level 5 team does it make you feel proud to beat true level 4 teams? I just don't get it. Last year one of my daughters best friends at another gym was on a Sr Coed 4 team, 17 of the 20 had consistent fulls. Why not just go Sr Open 5? My daughters level 4 team is not at 32 this year, maybe we can talk to Casey and Roger and get them to let us borrow Angel and a few of the other Orange girls so that we can have a full 32.

 

[Hodiestoe]

I'm asking this as a new cheer coach just to gain an understanding. I have a youth 2 and a senior 2. In order to make youth more viable I have crossed over 5 12 y/o's. They are flyers on the senior 2 but bases on the youth 2 and I did it to also give them basing experience. Both are small teams 15 on youth 2 and 20 on senior 2, should I not have done this?

 

[Just-a-Mom]

We have been at a very small gym with many crossovers and now at a large gym that does not use any crossovers with the exception of injuries, etc... Crossovers drive me crazy personally. When your level 4 team is made up of half of the kids on your level 5 team does it make you feel proud to beat true level 4 teams? I just don't get it. Last year one of my daughters best friends at another gym was on a Sr Coed 4 team, 17 of the 20 had consistent fulls. Why not just go Sr Open 5? My daughters level 4 team is not at 32 this year, maybe we can talk to Casey and Roger and get them to let us borrow Angel and a few of the other Orange girls so that we can have a full 32.

Without putting my gym on blast...trust me, we don't have any Angels

So here's my question - we don't have a level 4 team. Where should a level 4 athlete be placed? We have Level 3 and Level 5.

 

[MomOf2ThatsMe]

I'm asking this as a new cheer coach just to gain an understanding. I have a youth 2 and a senior 2. In order to make youth more viable I have crossed over 5 12 y/o's. They are flyers on the senior 2 but bases on the youth 2 and I did it to also give them basing experience. Both are small teams 15 on youth 2 and 20 on senior 2, should I not have done this?

I have no problem with what you did. They are both level 2 teams. However, my big question would be did they turn 12 after August 31st? As long as they turned 12 after August 31st, you are fine. If they were 12 on or before August 31st, they are illegal athletes for the youth division.

 

[MomNBlue&Green]

Without putting my gym on blast...trust me, we don't have any Angels

So here's my question - we don't have a level 4 team. Where should a level 4 athlete be placed? We have Level 3 and Level 5.

That would depend on their strengths and weaknesses in my opinion. If that level 4 athlete had jumps to tuck and was very strong at basing or flying elite stunts then Id probably go with Level 5 depending on the makeup of that level 5 team. If they had strong level 4 tumbling skills but not level 5 and not strong at basing or flying, Id go Level 3. There is so much to factor in when putting a team together.

 

[Just-a-Mom]

That would depend on their strengths and weaknesses in my opinion. If that level 4 athlete had jumps to tuck and was very strong at basing or flying elite stunts then Id probably go with Level 5 depending on the makeup of that level 5 team. If they had strong level 4 tumbling skills but not level 5 and not strong at basing or flying, Id go Level 3. There is so much to factor in when putting a team together.

This is why I only talk here and not in the gym.

 

[TheVipersMom]

I do not have a problem with crossovers at all.

My cp as everyone knows is 6. She is a solid level 2 tumbler. We don't have a mini 2 so she she does mini 1 to be with kids her age. She then does youth 2 to be with kids her skill level. All the level 2 kids on youth treat her so nice and they are good to her but they are not her age so that's why she does mini's.

My cp flys on youth 2 but she was told up front she will not fly on mini's to give others the chance to fly. Her flyer is bigger then her but she definitely deserves that spot. Our youth 2 is already really small and our mini team is the largest mini team I have ever seen at a competition. So yes they would have an easier time without her on mini's then youth would but she does not want to quit mini's.

The first day the teams were put together my cp was the only crossover to youth. Then after the first practice several girls who have never cheered before decided they wanted to quit. So the owner allowed one other kid who is 8 from mini's to crossover.

They were the only two. However in the last 3 weeks our team of 15 came down to 13 as 2 people quit..
We compete in less then 2 weeks so we have to add 2 more crossovers to fill holes and stunts. We have 2 more mini's that were asked to cross up. They have a back handspring but its not real solid as they just got it. We are not using those 2 girls to fly.. They are just bases. They are filling the holes the other 2 girls left and they just had the 1st practice on Thursday since they joined the team. I'm so nervous now.

The thing is we have a jr3 team and the owner didn't ask them to cross down she asked mini1 to cross up. So now 4 of our 15 youth kids came from mini's. If they started placing restrictions on cross overs they could really hurt smaller gyms!

I don't see why anyone would have a problem with my cp crossing over!

 

[Hodiestoe]

I have no problem with what you did. They are both level 2 teams. However, my big question would be did they turn 12 after August 31st? As long as they turned 12 after August 31st, you are fine. If they were 12 on or before August 31st, they are illegal athletes for the youth division.

No they are ok on age, they were 12 after the cut off date

 

[MomOf2ThatsMe]

No they are ok on age, they were 12 after the cut off date

Lol, then technically they are crossing over to the senior 2 team since they are youth-aged

 

[annauk]

I have no problem with what you did. They are both level 2 teams. However, my big question would be did they turn 12 after August 31st? As long as they turned 12 after August 31st, you are fine. If they were 12 on or before August 31st, they are illegal athletes for the youth division.

Not in England - we have slightly different age divisions. Youth is 12 and under.