All-Star Releasing Athletes

[Rudags]

Definitely seems like you made the right choice for your team! Thanks for explaining, I get it now. Good luck at Worlds! I'll be rooting for you guys from my house!


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Thank you. It will actually be VERY rare that I would EVER compete with a Team of 20 ever again. #Team19

 

[tumbleyoda]

Yes, to some extent and it happens fairly often- particularly on coed teams. We often called it the 'double full' scholarship on here- be a boy, go to a gym with a double full, cheer for free. Sometimes there are compensations- they teach classes/coach a team, clean the gym, etc. Sometimes nothing. Depends on the situation. From what some people have said it's not a problem- but I'd assume it's not a problem so long as the boy stays at the program. But if you have no obligation fiscally, I can imagine it's much easier to break ties. Which therefore becomes a problem.

You have hit the nail on the head. Quite often when they do not pay, they don't have a true sense of commitment to the program. They too often become entitled and think that they just deserve it. And while some can and do make the transition to coaching or don't mind working it off in the gym, it seems just by observing over the years that many of them could care less. It is free travel, trips, hotels, food, uniforms all being handed to them.

I will also say that it quite often causes problems with those that do pay - boys and girls. Have seen too many parents over the years become lax in paying the bill because in their mind if the gym can afford to let super wonderful hunky male cheer for free, then their not as skilled yet boy or equally skilled and adorable girl should be able to cheer for free as well.

***I can live with scholarships but those that take advantage of it ruin it for those who truly need it and would appreciate it.***

 

[onecheermom]

What does fully scholarshipped mean? Does that mean they don't have to pay tuition, comp fees, uniform, etc... I would think that would create some bitterness between families at that gym.



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Yes Fully scholarshipped means no expenses at all. No tuition , Comp fees, uniforms, etc... The gym is covering all expenses while the athlete is competing for the team.

 

[cupieqt]

Said this before, but we provide a product.

If at any point, you feel as though someone else can provide said product better, you leave (obviously you lose $ as we cannot refund it, but you can leave.)

Coke doesn't require you to be released by Coke to purchase a Pepsi. Why is cheer different?

Your point about the door swinging both ways is correct.

I can release an athlete for missing 20 practices. This is a business relationship and their part of the business bargain is not being upheld.

They are also like Coke/Pepsi. If I decide that another child can fulfill that bargain better, they will be replaced. I am not bound contractually to have that child on my team.

It works the same for me/the program.

That's a very Pollyanna way of looking at it. I'm all about being neutral when kids leave my program. And we constantly remind each other that we get these kids for one year (that's what they committed to and if they stay for another year, awesome, if not then maybe we didn't do our best job with them).

But comparing what I do for a living to drinking a coca cola is a bit of an oversimplification of my work.

 

[BBinNCsMom]

Yes Fully scholarshipped means no expenses at all. No tuition , Comp fees, uniforms, etc... The gym is covering all expenses while the athlete is competing for the team.

Do they apply for scholarship or is it individual gyms decides who gets what based on individual team/ gym needs?



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[Cheer Dad]

A release would be situational. Is the athlete coming in to have a meeting with me professionally with their parents? Or are they just going to quit, bad mouth me and the program and then demand a waiver and say its not fair? I would more than likely release ANYONE who schedules a meeting like I stated earlier.

To answer your last question, the replaced person automatically becomes an alternate. We have been upfront all year… I have Out of the 22 kids, I have 19 on the mat. 20 kids throw all level 5 skills (2 to full, running full, Jump Tuck, etc). So if one of those 'tumblers' cant hit a skill, I have room to put in a level 4 kid who can make a stunt hit. Make sense?

Most Definitely makes sense. Thanks for the insight.


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[AScheer]

Why would an appeals-process be impossible? Make very clear rules when a release can be denied (for example when money is still owed), and then an appeals-process is very possible. The problem is, right now it is up to the gym owner if or for what reason they sign/don't sign the release. As of right now you could even be denied a release if you moved too far away to attend practices anymore.

Impossible is probably the wrong word, but definitely hard. Yes you have the occasional black & white reasons. The kid is cut from their team/the kids family moves away. In those cases the gym just needs to get over themselves. However there are way more reasons that a kid shouldn't be released than should. If a kid wants a release and the reason behind it is shady, then what makes any of us think he won't lie about his reason to get that release. In this day and age, all a kid has to do to get their way is claim they feel bullied, wether they do or not doesn't matter. Anyone in charge of appeals, even if the kid owed money to the gym, would grant that release. Reason being is that can you imagine the backlash on the USASF if that kid really was bullied and they didn't release him. What if that kid wasn't released and then tried to hurt himself? The USASF would never want that type of responsibility, so they would ok every single appeal, because who can judge how a child feels? I just think appeals would be a waste, because if a kid wants one, they're going to get it. Why even go through all that work and waste the resources and time?
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[Klynn641]

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[AScheer]

How about this scenario....at another relatively local gym (late fall, but prior to first competition) they decide to downsize one of the World's teams due to lack of talent and make another World's team with those athletes and some from lower levels. One athlete decides that even though they are still on the original team, this is not what they contracted for (expected to compete on a larger team) and wanted to leave. They had contacted other areas gyms to meet the staff, but had not been placed on a team or tried out. Their original gym found out (they always do) and refused to release them and then removed them from the original team and said they would now be on the "lower level" World's team. This athlete (and their parents) have now had to either move forward on the new team or lose the year competing. This is not the first time I have heard of these type of actions, but find it DISGUSTING that a gym owner would be that vindictive. I totally agree with having waivers, but there needs to be something for the athletes/parents too. Gyms are "providing a product", but WE ARE THE CUSTOMERS and when we sign a contract, we are held to the requirements. Gyms should be too! Changing the "rules" in the middle of the season should allow for the customer to void the contract as well and get a waiver if needed. I don't know understand the gym "mind-set" that they are doing athletes and their parents a favor by allowing them to pay for this extremely expensive sport and that they can do whatever they want once they get a signature on a contract back in June.

In response to gyms not fulfilling their end of the contract, last I checked you signed up to cheer for XYZ Allstars. You didn't sign up for XYZ Allstars Senior large coed 5. The gym owes you no right to the team you feel you should be on. It's their team. If they decide its in the best interest to make an XYZ small coed 5 and XYZ small coed 4, that's in their right and doesn't do anything wrong according to the contract. They may move you to another team that you may or may not like, but again you only signed up to cheer in the program. There was no contract for that one team.


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[12stepCheermom]

In response to gyms not fulfilling their end of the contract, last I checked you signed up to cheer for XYZ Allstars. You didn't sign up for XYZ Allstars Senior large coed 5. The gym owes you no right to the team you feel you should be on. It's their team. If they decide its in the best interest to make an XYZ small coed 5 and XYZ small coed 4, that's in their right and doesn't do anything wrong according to the contract. They may move you to another team that you may or may not like, but again you only signed up to cheer in the program. There was no contract for that one team.


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And this is my issue. I don't have a problem with the release idea, it just needs to be balanced to protect both kids and the gym owners.

What you've described here is that the gym can do whatever it wants and the paying customer just has to shut up and take it...and if they don't want to do that, they can leave....but we held hostage for worlds since they're so "disloyal" and everything.

Kids/families have an expectation to compete on the team they made. If that team or coaching staff has major structural changes during the year kids shouldn't be held hostage to finish their commitment when the gym didn't honor the commitment they made to them. Loyalty and respect should go both ways.


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[Dixie]

In response to gyms not fulfilling their end of the contract, last I checked you signed up to cheer for XYZ Allstars. You didn't sign up for XYZ Allstars Senior large coed 5. The gym owes you no right to the team you feel you should be on. It's their team. If they decide its in the best interest to make an XYZ small coed 5 and XYZ small coed 4, that's in their right and doesn't do anything wrong according to the contract. They may move you to another team that you may or may not like, but again you only signed up to cheer in the program. There was no contract for that one team.


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That's true. But what if tuition is based on your team and your team changes? Say you pay $50 more each month to be on the senior 5. You pay that for 9 months and then get moved down or replaced. Now say your replacement has been on a Jr team ($50 less a month) should the gym refund your overage money and ask the new athlete to pay the back fees?
When I sign that contract in May, I do so with a reasonable set of guidelines in place. One being the team she was placed on will (barring tragedy) be the team she stays on until tryouts. Our tuition bill also lists our athlete name and team name. Maybe our gym just did it differently than most.


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[xomckenzieee]

I think the coaches who often choose not to release an athlete, often do it out of spite. That's not always the case but I think it is common.

There are two gyms near my hometown that have had athletes go between the gyms for years. They are both smaller gyms with one level 5 team. The gym owner of A has refused to release a different athlete, two seasons in a row, even though he replaced them on Gym A's team. Gym B has looked to pick them up, one year as an alternate and one year as a replacement for an injured athlete. Both years, Gym A refused and went as far as posting on Facebook about how he refused to do so because he doesn't feel as if the athlete should be allowed to move, even though they've been replaced. To me, that's spite and that's hurting an athlete and he seems to be trying to protect his ego more than anything.

I agree with the appeal process, if done correctly and I also believe that athletes should be able to buy out their contract and if they are replaced, they should be able to give up financial responsibility and be refunded for money they've fronted for future competitions they won't be competing in. To me, if the business is replacing an athlete, they should not be allowed to keep their money. This obviously is not the case if the athletes signed a contract that stated that they may become an alternate if they do not keep their skills up. But even with that, I think the athlete should only be replaced by another alternate and not some big time athlete who wants a spot.

 

[Just-a-Mom]

In response to gyms not fulfilling their end of the contract, last I checked you signed up to cheer for XYZ Allstars. You didn't sign up for XYZ Allstars Senior large coed 5. The gym owes you no right to the team you feel you should be on. It's their team. If they decide its in the best interest to make an XYZ small coed 5 and XYZ small coed 4, that's in their right and doesn't do anything wrong according to the contract. They may move you to another team that you may or may not like, but again you only signed up to cheer in the program. There was no contract for that one team.


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This is not completely true. Many gyms have you sign your registration (I won't call it a contract because it's usually not, contrary to what most gym owners say - it's a registration form) AFTER team placements. This provides a reasonably safe assumption that the team placement is part of the deal. If not then why are we signing after?

Also, let me just make sure I have this right. You (and other coaches/owners/etc) are saying: when we enter into this agreement, you are expecting the athlete to keep the same skills they have at the time of signing. You are basically saying, "if you lose your skills, that is 'not keeping up your end of the deal and we can replace you'," correct? But it is unreasonable for the athlete to expect you to keep the same teams?

How is losing skills "not keeping up your end of the deal," but changing the teams is "the nature of the business"? Awfully one sided.

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[cupieqt]

Competitive cheer is a select sport and you get to choose where you train. So when people sign up for our program I do remind them that they have chosen us and therefore have to submit to our rules. All of them. Even the ones they don't like. Which could mean anything from how we wear our hair on comp days to how we handle releasing athletes from their commitment to us. And I go over our rules and always include the caveat that things may change at my discretion. (This works for us just fine because I'm not an a$$hat and I do not make decisions based on emotion. I work through facts not feelings).

I know people are spending money with us but they choose to do that and they have to accept that there may be changes made during the year simply based on the needs of the team or program. If an athlete needs to leave for whatever reasons, let's discuss it and get that release signed. If they jump ship and cause problems for us then they're not getting the release.

 

[just_kay_today]

What if they jump ship, not too long after November, and go to the mega gym down the road that you hate? How many of you would gladly sign the release then? (not you @Rudags, you answered this question already. Plus, I know your character.)

I ask because I have seen spiteful gym owners hold students hostage from Worlds, for virtually an entire season. These are kids who competed one or two times with their gym, then for their and their family's own reasons, decided to move to our gym.

It's sad to see a child go through that.