All-Star Sandbagging

[Cheeranswers]

People who are already committed to a gym can not try out

considering they had almost a full team that was already committed to another gym come join their brand new gym, I'm gonna go ahead and assume this is not true. an athlete comes from another gym complaining about how unhappy they are but have a whip double and toe full. you think CSP is turning them away? I definitely dont

 

[luv2cheer92]

Summit should have a rule limited changes in rosters. This may stop some of the crossing over. Makes no sense that you can say qualify with 23 "a's "and bring 32 "b's" Limit changes/alternates like worlds. Not fair that a team who got the bid can be a completely different one that goes to summit.

Agreed. And while I'm sure most if not all of the athletes that were on these teams are going to the summit anyway, I wouldn't want to work hard to earn a bid to the summit, just to not be able to compete with that team.

 

[ryleighsmum7]

[emoji1319][emoji1319][emoji1319]agreed... Well next year there should be a whole lot of rule changes..


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[336Teal]

.

 

[cheernerd5678]

Eta: meant to quote this to the post about what would the cea teams with worlds athletes do for summit, I think it was in this thread?


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so what team DOESN'T need more athletes? Just coed elite?


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[ErinS]

I have typically liked CEA, and turned a blind eye to some of the things they've done just because I don't have a dog in that fight....


But reading this, I'm sure there will be some CEA parents that come and defend, but at the end of the day... Don't earn a bid with a team and then replace it with a team that isn't the same caliber as the one you put on the floor to earn the bid. I'm not saying that the revamped team won't be good by any means.... but what I am saying is that it is deceitful to go earn a Summit bid with level 5 (worlds caliber in some cases) athletes on level 4, level 3 and 4.2 team.... and then replace them with level appropriate kids for the Summit.

Its deceitful to earn a Worlds bid with a cross over from one of your flagship level 5 teams....and then replace with someone that may or may not be equally as good for Worlds.

None of this is illegal as far as USASF rules... but for me this is unethical. It's almost greed. Why earn bids for teams that in theory do not exist (due to cross overs) in the realm of Summit competitions? Its deceit. I don't have a dog in this fight like I said, but morally, as a fan and spectator of this sport, I find it disgusting.


That being said. I would now like to formally announce that I am no longer rooting for SE to win worlds....after years of being Team SE. I would like to say (and accept the fact) that I no longer find Orange to be dry toast. I am now officially rooting for Panthers and Orange. I can't root for WCSS because of my deep seeded dislike of Lady Gaga.

The way CEA operates isn't for everyone, clearly, and nothing takes away the fact that they're successful and have plenty of "happy campers"..... but like... nah. I'm done.

 

[Cheermom1969]

I have typically liked CEA, and turned a blind eye to some of the things they've done just because I don't have a dog in that fight....


But reading this, I'm sure there will be some CEA parents that come and defend, but at the end of the day... Don't earn a bid with a team and then replace it with a team that isn't the same caliber as the one you put on the floor to earn the bid. I'm not saying that the revamped team won't be good by any means.... but what I am saying is that it is deceitful to go earn a Summit bid with level 5 (worlds caliber in some cases) athletes on level 4, level 3 and 4.2 team.... and then replace them with level appropriate kids for the Summit.

Its deceitful to earn a Worlds bid with a cross over from one of your flagship level 5 teams....and then replace with someone that may or may not be equally as good for Worlds.

None of this is illegal as far as USASF rules... but for me this is unethical. It's almost greed. Why earn bids for teams that in theory do not exist (due to cross overs) in the realm of Summit competitions? Its deceit. I don't have a dog in this fight like I said, but morally, as a fan and spectator of this sport, I find it disgusting.


That being said. I would now like to formally announce that I am no longer rooting for SE to win worlds....after years of being Team SE. I would like to say (and accept the fact) that I no longer find Orange to be dry toast. I am now officially rooting for Panthers and Orange. I can't root for WCSS because of my deep seeded dislike of Lady Gaga.

The way CEA operates isn't for everyone, clearly, and nothing takes away the fact that they're successful and have plenty of "happy campers"..... but like... nah. I'm done.

I've had an inner struggle all season with the WCSS/Gaga thing. I love love love SS but loathe Gaga.

 

[jennarap]

The way it looks to me is they almost tried to find a loophole in the new worlds-summit 5 crossover limit rule.. Get the bid with them then replace them.

 

[That_Cheer_Dad]

The way it looks to me is they almost tried to find a loophole in the new worlds-summit 5 crossover limit rule.. Get the bid with them then replace them.

Agreed - this in my opinion is their way of thumbing their nose at Varsity or even flipping them the bird and saying they will do whatever they want because they can. The issue also is did they actually shaft any other deserving team(s) out of a bid because of this, which then creates an even bigger issue...

 

[MomMomMamaMom]

I guess I just don't understand why CEA sets up their teams the way the do, when they know the rules for Summit and the Worlds will force them to rework several teams so they can compete those events. Why not just make a team that will be eligible with the athletes they already have, even if it means not fielding a few teams to start with? It just doesn't make sense to me.

If anyone could rework a routine, I'd lay my money on CEA... Not sure why they do it, and I most definitely do not agree with it, it goes against what I think the summit should be about.... Teams working their butt off to compete at the highest level, together.

But I will say, CEA has been very open about their philosophy and has been standing up for this concept rather uniformly, so I'm guessing all the athletes and parents have known it would come down to this. I've said it before, but I believe it is within CSP's rights to stand up for what she believes about the industry, and that she has earned her proverbial stripes, and can use her clout the way she chooses. I suspect it's a marketing strategy... Great way to get new athletes by taking them to the summit right off. I just hope her's doesn't become the prevalent way in the industry. I think that push back from other programs is essential at this point, and Varsity and USASF will hopefully step up to the plate.

 

[luv2cheer92]

Agreed - this in my opinion is their way of thumbing their nose at Varsity or even flipping them the bird and saying they will do whatever they want because they can. The issue also is did they actually shaft any other deserving team(s) out of a bid because of this, which then creates an even bigger issue...

This is ultimately what I have the biggest problem with.

 

[quitthedrama]

The way it looks to me is they almost tried to find a loophole in the new worlds-summit 5 crossover limit rule.. Get the bid with them then replace them.

They have done it since before Summit was even created (with other competitions). I don't like what they do, but they by far aren't alone, just the most public about it. And there are so many forms of sandbagging that I see it more as the norm than the exception these days, so just because they do it one way and another gym does it differently doesn't make either of them less right or wrong. In fact, I'll take this method over creating a team with all higher level athletes and competing down 2 levels all season. The problem lies with the rules. Gyms will work the rules to their advantage - whether it be for the ring/jacket, or just to be able to give as many of their athletes as possible the Summit/Worlds experience.
And sadly the Summit doesn't care. My CP was on a team that won a bid in 2 levels (the first year of Summit) and from what I was told the EP said the team could compete in both levels - the same.exact.team

 

[tumbleyoda]

I guess I just don't understand why CEA sets up their teams the way the do, when they know the rules for Summit and the Worlds will force them to rework several teams so they can compete those events. Why not just make a team that will be eligible with the athletes they already have, even if it means not fielding a few teams to start with? It just doesn't make sense to me.

I agree with what most are saying about the CEA advertisement. I'd be embarrassed as a program owner to have to advertise to fill teams at this point in the season all because I probably didn't fill them correctly to begin with. Now the world who's already scrutinizing your program because of the sandbagging you "allegedly" do has something to really talk about.

Simple answer: Recruitment. Please know that there are other gyms that do this than CEA but because they have done this longer, are larger and more openly than others they get the most blame on this. Therefore they have become the poster child for this activity. But they are not alone.

You take a team and crossover athletes from a higher skill level team to it for a bid competition. That team wins a bid. That bid is yours. Yes you have to fill those spots as you readjust your teams, but you have several gyms near you that don't have bids with age eligible and skilled athletes. This makes it very easy to recruit from those neighboring gyms. You are basically throwing out a guaranteed trip to Florida for them to switch gyms. Plus you now have them in your program which potentially weakens your competitor at the same time. It is a business move. Once again...unethical but not illegal.

Read twitter and instagram and you see coaches from several programs recruiting for people to fill spots on teams that have already earned a bid. Sometimes it is due to injury or someone quitting. But not always. And no one on the magnitude of this.

 

[cheermomforever]

They have done it since before Summit was even created (with other competitions). I don't like what they do, but they by far aren't alone, just the most public about it. And there are so many forms of sandbagging that I see it more as the norm than the exception these days, so just because they do it one way and another gym does it differently doesn't make either of them less right or wrong. In fact, I'll take this method over creating a team with all higher level athletes and competing down 2 levels all season. The problem lies with the rules. Gyms will work the rules to their advantage - whether it be for the ring/jacket, or just to be able to give as many of their athletes as possible the Summit/Worlds experience.
And sadly the Summit doesn't care. My CP was on a team that won a bid in 2 levels (the first year of Summit) and from what I was told the EP said the team could compete in both levels - the same.exact.team

Exactly this is why we need a roster change limit rule and along with crossover max for Summit.


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[cheernerd5678]

woah there with the Gaga hate! She was the first (and only) concert I ever went to. Opening act... A little scarring for a soon to be 8th grader but she was fantastic!


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