All-Star Sandbagging

[MomMomMamaMom]

I have mentioned this idea before, but here it again anyway:

2 "classifications" of gyms.

1. Gym owners self-select their classification at the start of the season and are not allowed to switch mid-season.
2. Classification affects ALL teams.

"National" division

• Liberal use of crossovers allowed within a facility
• Much lower age "floor" for divisions. (10 years olds on senior teams, etc)

"World" division

• Very restricted use of crossovers. (Perhaps similar to NCA Nationals policy or stricter)
• Higher age floors (12 and up on senior teams)
• Eligible for Worlds Bids.

There would be division splits at competitions when EACH side would have 2 or more teams in it.

I would also suggest to Varsity that they implement rules for Summit similar to Worlds about athletes hopping around to bid-earning teams (or stricter).

I would like to see it that once an athlete is on a team that earns a bid, that athlete is not eligible to help a different team earn a bid later.

As it stands, theoretically, we could enter Panthers in multiple divisions at 2 competitions as Senior 5R, Senior 4, Senior 3, Senior 2, and Senior 1 and then have our "real" senior 5R, 4, 3, 2, and 1 go to Summit with those bids. (Our teams are generally capable of earning their own bids, just using that as an example.)

I like this idea. It seems like it would work, and allow for the multiple needs of different programs to be met. It feels more like how other team sports are structured.

I can see that it would also have some implications for those programs that have satellite gyms, as it would affect how they structured if they were franchises, etc.

 

[Extrememom]

Ok, as the parent of a child on 3 teams at CEA and.... there are only a few of us that have that situation. My CP is a level 5 flyer & a true level 4 tumbler. Both of my girls have crossed over to another team for years.....and personally, I wouldn't have it any other way. They both have learned something valuable from each team. No one has to like the CEA philosophy, but it works for our gym. There are other gyms that crossover athletes at certain comps & I can name gyms & the athletes that have done it.....for years! (I won't) CEA gets bashed because it's out in the public, people will take the little facts that they know & try to make a huge issue.
As I said my daughter is on 3 teams.....all of those teams were fortunate to get Summit bids, paid & not paid. She can only compete on 2 because of Summit rules. So there is an open spot on one of those teams....it's not hard to understand why all of the teams listed are looking for a fill in.....and by the way, the teams listed are not just Kville teams! Based on what happened last year, 90% of those filling positions will come from the smaller Satellite gyms.....it gives those kids the opportunity to experience Summit or maybe even Worlds, that wouldn't have the chance.
As far as fill ins for SE, and that team not being able to keep kids....there have been situations with not being able to make the commitment it takes for that team, injuries & other reasons. There are 36 on that team now, no alternates.....
LOT has had kids leave or get injured & not sure if they will be able to compete at Worlds.
The decision for SE or COED not to attend NCA, was made at the end of last season.....nothing changed!



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[CEATealMom]

LE isn't at Kernersville though. LOT is listed as medium on the UCA schedule, so I was thinking it must mean them and SE.

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SE has 36 athletes. 35 of them received the bid, 1 replaced an athlete. They're good.


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[luv2cheer92]

SE has 36 athletes. 35 of them received the bid, 1 replaced an athlete. They're good.


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So then CSPs original post is incorrect as in this is not just for Kernersville?

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[jujuextreme]

Ok since this thread is clearly directed at CEA, I'm going to chime in as a parent of a CEA athlete.
I want you to look at it from a different perspective. My daughter started with a local bigger gym in the Charlotte area. When we felt they were not competitive anymore and my child was at a stand still in improving, we decided to look at different options for our child. It brought us to CEA.
My child was placed on 2 teams. Initially I thought it was crazy. I thought we are driving an hour and a half, there is no way she can do 2 teams.
She was put on a level 5 team. Again, I thought it was insane because my child did not have a full on the floor by herself. YES FOLKS CEA PUT HER ON A LEVEL 5 TEAM WHEN SHE CLEARLY WAS NOT A LEVEL 5 ATHLETE AT THE TIME.
So as the year goes on we watch and see something happening. We saw our shy, insecure athlete work her tail off on her "true level 5 team" because she wanted to be as good as some of the incredible athletes that surrounded her.
We also saw our very shy, insecure child boast with confidence and be a leader on her other level 5 team who clearly should have been a level 4. She got to be one of the better athletes on this team.
So this mom thanks CEA for both pushing my daughter to excel and max out her ability while also giving her a chance to be a leader and be one of the top athletes on her team. It gave her a great deal of self confidence and leadership skills.
So crossovers can go both ways folks. There are athletes that crossover to teams that are above their level also. Wonder why there is not a thread about that???
When you double team and are placed on a lower level team, you cannot do anything above the level of team you are placed on. A level 5 athlete cannot go on a level 4 team and do fulls. They can only perform level 4 skills. There are teams at CEA that compete at a higher level than they probably should. I don't see people starting a thread about that either.

It's definitely not for everyone but I am thankful to have made the switch 7 years ago.

 

[luv2cheer92]

Ok since this thread is clearly directed at CEA, I'm going to chime in as a parent of a CEA athlete.
I want you to look at it from a different perspective. My daughter started with a local bigger gym in the Charlotte area. When we felt they were not competitive anymore and my child was at a stand still in improving, we decided to look at different options for our child. It brought us to CEA.
My child was placed on 2 teams. Initially I thought it was crazy. I thought we are driving an hour and a half, there is no way she can do 2 teams.
She was put on a level 5 team. Again, I thought it was insane because my child did not have a full on the floor by herself. YES FOLKS CEA PUT HER ON A LEVEL 5 TEAM WHEN SHE CLEARLY WAS NOT A LEVEL 5 ATHLETE AT THE TIME.
So as the year goes on we watch and see something happening. We saw our shy, insecure athlete work her tail off on her "true level 5 team" because she wanted to be as good as some of the incredible athletes that surrounded her.
We also saw our very shy, insecure child boast with confidence and be a leader on her other level 5 team who clearly should have been a level 4. She got to be one of the better athletes on this team.
So this mom thanks CEA for both pushing my daughter to excel and max out her ability while also giving her a chance to be a leader and be one of the top athletes on her team. It gave her a great deal of self confidence and leadership skills.
So crossovers can go both ways folks. There are athletes that crossover to teams that are above their level also. Wonder why there is not a thread about that???
When you double team and are placed on a lower level team, you cannot do anything above the level of team you are placed on. A level 5 athlete cannot go on a level 4 team and do fulls. They can only perform level 4 skills. There are teams at CEA that compete at a higher level than they probably should. I don't see people starting a thread about that either.

It's definitely not for everyone but I am thankful to have made the switch 7 years ago.

There have definitely been numerous discussions on here of gyms forming teams that compete above the level that they should be. To me, if I were a parent this would be raising a red flag as a safety concern. I would not want my hypothetical child competing on a level 5 team that should really be a level 4 team.

And I will never buy into the "argument" (because it really isn't one in my mind) that athletes can only do level 4 skills on a level 4 team so that makes it okay. To me it doesn't, there is a big difference in a level 4 kid throwing level 4 skills and a level 5 kid throwing level 4 skills, at least there should be if they are truly at that higher level. Someone who can throw a double full is more than likely going to have a better layout than someone where a layout is there highest skill. And level 5 stunting experience is going to greatly improve someone's level 4 stunting ability.

I'm glad CEA has been a great decision for you and your family, but their philosophy is far from ideal for a lot of people.

 

[Nothanks]

i don't think anyone is side-eyeing the athletes that are within level/going up one level like we've heard many times regarding the "CEA philosophy". It's awesome that it works as well as it does for those athletes.

it's when there are children put on teams to "bulk" it up, and then there is a need to have new tryouts because, clearly, those athletes will compete on the team they belong on come Worlds/Summit, not the lower level team.

 

[mstealtoyou]

This whole situation really makes me wonder how much credibility CSP now has for her argument that her level 5 teams skipped NCA because of the travel expenses, time commitments etc. Was that really the case, or was the case that NCA's more stringent policies on crossovers prevented it?

We've been competing at NCA with teams that fit the crossover guidelines for more than a decade.......we could have done it this year and chose not to. Simple as that.

 

[336Teal]

I second everything from @Extrememom. I would also like to add that the Summit teams that are listed there are simply the teams that got Summit bids. Just because a team is listed there, doesn't mean that there are spots available on all of those teams, and it especially doesn't mean that the 'entire team' has to be replaced as someone mentioned above. I can only speak for the one Summit team that my daughter is on, and they need two athletes (possibly just one). The only reason why that is even needed is because there were fill-ins for injuries. Just because the team is listed there, doesn't mean they are replacing the whole group.

 

[jujuextreme]

There have definitely been numerous discussions on here of gyms forming teams that compete above the level that they should be. To me, if I were a parent this would be raising a red flag as a safety concern. I would not want my hypothetical child competing on a level 5 team that should really be a level 4 team.

And I will never buy into the "argument" (because it really isn't one in my mind) that athletes can only do level 4 skills on a level 4 team so that makes it okay. To me it doesn't, there is a big difference in a level 4 kid throwing level 4 skills and a level 5 kid throwing level 4 skills, at least there should be if they are truly at that higher level. Someone who can throw a double full is more than likely going to have a better layout than someone where a layout is there highest skill. And level 5 stunting experience is going to greatly improve someone's level 4 stunting ability.

I'm glad CEA has been a great decision for you and your family, but their philosophy is far from ideal for a lot of people.

As I said in my post, It is not for everyone, but WE are glad we made the switch 7 years ago. "CEA's philosophy can be far idea for a lot of people" but it works wonders for a lot of kids.

Nobody asked you to "buy into the argument", I simply stated my opinion on this topic just as you have.

 

[336Teal]

Nobody asked you to "buy into the argument", I simply stated my opinion on this topic just as you have.

Ahhh, but you wear teal. You aren't allowed to have a different opinion. If you do, you've obviously been drinking too much koolaid or whatever.

 

[336Teal]

nvm

 

[Lablover]

And I will never buy into the "argument" (because it really isn't one in my mind) that athletes can only do level 4 skills on a level 4 team so that makes it okay. To me it doesn't, there is a big difference in a level 4 kid throwing level 4 skills and a level 5 kid throwing level 4 skills, at least there should be if they are truly at that higher level. Someone who can throw a double full is more than likely going to have a better layout than someone where a layout is there highest skill. And level 5 stunting experience is going to greatly improve someone's level 4 stunting ability.

There are lots of level 5 athletes on level 4 teams regardless of if a gym uses crossovers. Maybe at larger gyms you're on a level 4 team because there are better level 5 athletes than you (doesn't mean you aren't level 5) and at smaller gym maybe there isn't level 5 team. The argument that only gyms that have crossovers are "guilty" of using higher level athletes on lower level teams is patently false. My daughter follows some of the athletes on wonderkatz (CA youth level 4) and many of them have fulls and doubles but are performing on a level 4 team. Just an example and I don't have an issue with it-- just an observation I've seen, since many point to stingrays and Cheer Athletics as gyms that do well and don't use crossovers.

 

[luv2cheer92]

There are lots of level 5 athletes on level 4 teams regardless of if a gym uses crossovers. Maybe at larger gyms you're on a level 4 team because there are better level 5 athletes than you (doesn't mean you aren't level 5) and at smaller gym maybe there isn't level 5 team. The argument that only gyms that have crossovers are "guilty" of using higher level athletes on lower level teams is patently false. My daughter follows some of the athletes on wonderkatz (CA youth level 4) and many of them have fulls and doubles but are performing on a level 4 team. Just an example and I don't have an issue with it-- just an observation I've seen, since many point to stingrays and Cheer Athletics as gyms that do well and don't use crossovers.

I should have made my post a little more clear, my mistake. I'm fine with athletes competing on a lower team than what level skills they possess. My issue is more with athletes that have experience competing on a level 5 team, that are also competing on a lower level team. If those Wonderkatz that have fulls/doubles were also on Jags for the past season or two, then I wouldn't necessarily agree with it. I just get frustrated seeing athletes that have been competing with level 5 teams for several years also competing on a lower level team at the same time.

 

[Cheeranswers]

I'm not gonna write a huge post, but no one is criticizing CEA for having athletes double team. Holden was on coed elite and crossed over to jr 5 to become a better base. that's not what's in question here. its when almost every single athlete is on 3 teams. its when athletes are PURPOSEFULLY put on teams to win bids/summits/NCA titles. its when a good portion of your senior 4 team are world champions or on world champion teams, or when world athletes are put on a team 2 levels under them. THATS the issue.