All-Star Should This Be Allowed As Part Of The Cheer/gymnastics Community?

[purplecheer]

Have you ever done gymnastics rope climbs? I have, a couple of years ago. You need LOTS of upper body strength just to climb up! And this girl had excellent flexibility too.
I think this is just another apparatus like bars or beam.

 

[catlady]

Asherah poles and May poles are associated with fertility. While I agree pole dancing and pole gymnastics take great strength to master, there is also a reason the "pole" is associated with phallic symbolism. If I lived somewhere where it wasn't viewed as sexual I might allow my child to participate but, here in the US where it is, heck no.

 

[cheermommaRN]

The video appears to be from the Ukraine (or somewhere obviously not the US). In the culture where she is from, poles may not be related to stripping at all. If she was doing these moves on silks would anyone bat an eye? No. There was nothing sexual or remotely "stripper" about her routine. If I lived in that country and my child wanted to do it I would probably say yes but since the culture of the US does relate it to topless clubs...probably not.

 

[cachoi]

I think costume and music can sway the direction of a performance too. If the song was Pour Some Sugar on Me and the costume was tassels and booty floss, that would be so so unbelievably wrong.

 

[Official OWECheer]

Asherah poles and May poles are associated with fertility. While I agree pole dancing and pole gymnastics take great strength to master, there is also a reason the "pole" is associated with phallic symbolism. If I lived somewhere where it wasn't viewed as sexual I might allow my child to participate but, here in the US where it is, heck no.

I agree.

 

[kristenthegreat]

I actually saw this a year ago, and while I wouldn't suggest it for young girls (I'm not a parent so nobody's asking me lol), I've been DYING to get into a pole class ever since myself. If I'm half that flexible and can do that cool stuff after a year or so, I'd so say it's worth it. I've seen the World Pole Championships on Youtube, and some of the dances the women do are incredibly beautiful.

Yes- you wear less clothes because your skin is what sticks. Contrast that with silks where you want to be as covered as possible so you don't get rope burn.

 

[randomactsofcheer]

Asherah poles and May poles are associated with fertility. While I agree pole dancing and pole gymnastics take great strength to master, there is also a reason the "pole" is associated with phallic symbolism. If I lived somewhere where it wasn't viewed as sexual I might allow my child to participate but, here in the US where it is, heck no.

In Austria (and I believe Bavarian Germany?) there is a huge festival associated with putting up the Maibaum. The pole is symbolic for growth (plants and trees) and welcoming spring and summer after winter. I didn't realize Maypoles were symbolic for fertility in other areas.

Yes, poles are phallic symbols. But so are skyscrapers, bananas, light poles, a weird candle my CP made, etc.

I wouldn't have put my daughter in all-star cheer if I was worried about her being associated with NFL cheerleaders.

I wouldn't let my daughter sing if I was worried about her being associated with Miley Cyrus.

I wouldn't let my daughter dance if I was worried about her being associated with anything that resembles twerking.

Someone at some point in her life might make these associations about my daughter, but it isn't a reason for her to not do any of these things.

I try to base my decisions on what I think is best for my daughter rather than what other people (or society) thinks is best for my daughter. People pay far too much attention to what other people think when it comes to things like this. There is a huge difference between a child taking pole dancing classes to learn how to be a stripper and a child who has no idea what stripping is learning how to use a pole in an acro routine.

 

[Official OWECheer]

In Austria (and I believe Bavarian Germany?) there is a huge festival associated with putting up the Maibaum. The pole is symbolic for growth (plants and trees) and welcoming spring and summer after winter. I didn't realize Maypoles were symbolic for fertility in other areas.

Yes, poles are phallic symbols. But so are skyscrapers, bananas, light poles a weird candle my CP made, etc.

I wouldn't have put my daughter in all-star cheer if I was worried about her being associated with NFL cheerleaders.

I wouldn't let my daughter sing if I was worried about her being associated with Miley Cyrus.

I wouldn't let my daughter dance if I was worried about her being associated with anything that resembles twerking.

Someone at some point in her life might make these associations about my daughter, but it isn't a reason for her to not do any of these things.

I try to base my decisions on what I think is best for my daughter rather than what other people (or society) thinks is best for my daughter. People pay far too much attention to what other people think when it comes to things like this. There is a huge difference between a child taking pole dancing classes to learn how to be a stripper and a child who has no idea what stripping is learning how to use a pole in an acro routine.

I agree (my opinions are modified frequently lol). But the flack I would get from other parents would be so. Annoying.

I guess that's the situation for some cheer parents.

 

[catlady]

In Austria (and I believe Bavarian Germany?) there is a huge festival associated with putting up the Maibaum. The pole is symbolic for growth (plants and trees) and welcoming spring and summer after winter. I didn't realize Maypoles were symbolic for fertility in other areas.

Yes, poles are phallic symbols. But so are skyscrapers, bananas, light poles a weird candle my CP made, etc.

I wouldn't have put my daughter in all-star cheer if I was worried about her being associated with NFL cheerleaders.

I wouldn't let my daughter sing if I was worried about her being associated with Miley Cyrus.

I wouldn't let my daughter dance if I was worried about her being associated with anything that resembles twerking.

Someone at some point in her life might make these associations about my daughter, but it isn't a reason for her to not do any of these things.

I try to base my decisions on what I think is best for my daughter rather than what other people (or society) thinks is best for my daughter. People pay far too much attention to what other people think when it comes to things like this. There is a huge difference between a child taking pole dancing classes to learn how to be a stripper and a child who has no idea what stripping is learning how to use a pole in an acro routine.

I respect those are your choices for your daughter, however, I do feel it is a bit cruel to think there aren't going to be repercussions for choices that we say are "OK" when society views it differently. If my child wants to wear her bikini to the mall, I'm going to say "no", not because I think bikini's are horrible but, because she would be subjected to unnecessary judgment and harrassment. I feel the same about pole dancing/gymnastics in the US. Why would I want boys, men and peers that have been conditioned to see it as sexual knowing my child does it and open her up to the harrassment that would come with it? Go to YouTube and look at the comments from differing countries. I'm not going to judge a child but, if they are subjected to harassment, I'm going to side eye a parent for saying it is ok when the majority of their society says it isn't.

This is a good discussion and I think it is a struggle currently going on in AS. There are some parents that are saying there isn't anything "sexual" about it and think the dances are "fierce" and the uniforms are "beautiful". Meanwhile, I listen to the comments of my peers and family that tell me they think there are some things that are starting to, or have crossed the line.

 

[nicolee]

I wish poles weren't associated so much with sexuality. Pole dancing is amazing aerobic exercise and takes an incredible amount of strength and power.

But unfortunately we do associate poles with strippers in our society, and that's the reason I wouldn't let my hypothetical child do it.

I've had lots of friends who have taken pole classes and loved it, but only after the age of 17. Until we can dissociate poles from stripping, I don't really support it for young children. Particularly since you really do need to wear minimal clothing to get a proper grip on the pole.

 

[Pebbles49]

I have to admit, I remembered when my daughter was working on climbing ropes and poles to build up her upper body strength in gymnastics, never once did I thought of strippers and pole dancing. It may have been the contexts of what the girls were doing on ropes and poles and most definitely, the environment the ropes and poles were in. Had the gym was playing heavy thumping music and the little girls were twerking, etc...on these apparatus, maybe I would have objected...

 

[randomactsofcheer]

I respect those are your choices for your daughter, however, I do feel it is a bit cruel to think there aren't going to be repercussions for choices that we say are "OK" when society views it differently. If my child wants to wear her bikini to the mall, I'm going to say "no", not because I think bikini's are horrible but, because she would be subjected to unnecessary judgment and harrassment. I feel the same about pole dancing/gymnastics in the US. Why would I want boys, men and peers that have been conditioned to see it as sexual knowing my child does it and open her up to the harrassment that would come with it? Go to YouTube and look at the comments from differing countries. I'm not going to judge a child but, if they are subjected to harassment, I'm going to side eye a parent for saying it is ok when the majority of their society says it isn't.

This is a good discussion and I think it is a struggle currently going on in AS.

I didn't mean that we or our children should be able to do whatever we want and not care what people think. Wearing a bikini in the mall is situationally inappropriate and will open someone up for harassment. Wearing that same bikini at the beach is appropriate, but there is still a possibility of harassment from someone who is being a jerk. A child wearing a itty bitty outfit while dancing provacatively against a pole is inappropriate in any situation and will open the child up for harassment (and I am guessing the parents for a visit from CPS). A child doing an age appropriate acro routine in a strip club is situationally inappropriate and poses the same problems. A child doing an age appropriate acro routine in a gym is appropriate but again, there is still the possibility of harassment from someone who is being a jerk.

This goes the same for cheer. Anyone who participates in cheer opens themselves up to the negative connations and stereotypes that come with it. Even the most appropriately dressed and behaved cheerleader will most likely have to deal with this at some point. NFL cheerleaders are the most visible and arguably sexualized cheerleaders out there. Is it a reason not to do cheer?

And I really hate to think that boys are so conditioned to have sexual thoughts about pole dancers that a child doing a completely appropriate gymnastics routine would bring forth those thoughts. Is the problem in the conditioning and not the pole? For me, the solution to this is not to tell girls to not participate in a perfectly appropriate activity because boys might have inappropriate thoughts. The best way to combat the stigma is to change it. Making "appropriate" pole dancing more common and visible is the only at to do so

Remember, it wasn't too long ago that women weren't wearing pants because they were worried about what men would think of them.

 

[catlady]

I didn't mean that we or our children should be able to do whatever we want and not care what people think. Wearing a bikini in the mall is situationally inappropriate and will open someone up for harassment. Wearing that same bikini at the beach is appropriate, but there is still a possibility of harassment from someone who is being a jerk. A child wearing a itty bitty outfit while dancing provacatively against a pole is inappropriate in any situation and will open the child up for harassment (and I am guessing the parents for a visit from CPS). A child doing an age appropriate acro routine in a strip club is situationally inappropriate and poses the same problems. A child doing an age appropriate acro routine in a gym is appropriate but again, there is still the possibility of harassment from someone who is being a jerk.

This goes the same for cheer. Anyone who participates in cheer opens themselves up to the negative connations and stereotypes that come with it. Even the most appropriately dressed and behaved cheerleader will most likely have to deal with this at some point. NFL cheerleaders are the most visible and arguably sexualized cheerleaders out there. Is it a reason not to do cheer?

And I really hate to think that boys are so conditioned to have sexual thoughts about pole dancers that a child doing a completely appropriate gymnastics routine would bring forth those thoughts. Is the problem in the conditioning and not the pole? For me, the solution to this is not to tell girls to not participate in a perfectly appropriate activity because boys might have inappropriate thoughts. The best way to combat the stigma is to change it. Making "appropriate" pole dancing more common and visible is the only at to do so

Remember, it wasn't too long ago that women weren't wearing pants because they were worried about what men would think of them.

I had to look up the history of "women and pants" but, I'm not really seeing the correlation between an article of clothing that was once viewed as a gender specific and a young child participating in an activity that is viewed as sexual in our society.

I understand the best way to combat a stigma is to change it but, I don't believe children should be the pawns used to drive a point home. When the poles come out of adult clubs and bedrooms in the US, I will feel comfortable to allow a child to participate.

 

[Official OWECheer]

I had to look up the history of "women and pants" but, I'm not really seeing the correlation between an article of clothing that was once viewed as a gender specific and a young child participating in an activity that is viewed as sexual in our society.

I understand the best way to combat a stigma is to change it but, I don't believe children should be the pawns used to drive a point home. When the poles come out of adult clubs and bedrooms in the US, I will feel comfortable to allow a child to participate.

Aaaaand I agree.

 

[randomactsofcheer]

I had to look up the history of "women and pants" but, I'm not really seeing the correlation between an article of clothing that was once viewed as a gender specific and a young child participating in an activity that is viewed as sexual in our society.

I understand the best way to combat a stigma is to change it but, I don't believe children should be the pawns used to drive a point home. When the poles come out of adult clubs and bedrooms in the US, I will feel comfortable to allow a child to participate.

I thought we were talking about doing or not doing certain things because society says we shouldn't. I used examples of singing, dancing, and cheerleading, not just pole dancing. My objection to not participating in something that is contextually appropriate is much broader than the sexual aspect of it. And I do think, taking the child aspect out of this, there is a gender issue here. If a boy or man did this routine, would everyone's concerns be the same? Would there be concerns at all?


Should boys not join the cheerleading squad because it is a girls activity or because their classmates or friends might harass them?

Should my CP stop doing cheerleading because someone might associate negative stereotypes with her or because she will be associated with other highly sexualized sports cheerleaders?

Would I let my CP take an acro class that focuses on using a pole if she asked? Absolutely! Will I be parading her around the media circuit as the new "face" of pole dancing? Absolutely not. But if it is something she wants to do, then I will allow her to participate. I have already had to explain to her some of the negative connotations associated with cheerleading because of a mean little girl in her class and have taught her how to stand up for herself if/when she encounters that situation again.

ETA: And I would let my child participate in a competition involving said pole activity if I deemed it the appropriate setting. I should mention that I see very strict limits on what I would deem appropriate for this activity. I think in a gym for practice or competition is appropriate. I am not okay with the competition show platform for this. I am not sure how I would feel about any televised event (for children), but I feel this way for many reality/competition shows that involve children, regardless of the context.

I have a much stronger argument for my reasoning behind this (I had to edit much of my other post,too), but I feel like it will lead this discussion into something that would be more appropriate on the 18+ or parent board.