All-Star Small Gym/large Gym Question

[CGAcheer]

Coming from a small gym, with probably less than 60 kids overall, it is a definite advantage for me to compete in the small gym category. We do not have full squads, we don't have the choice of multiple levels for the same age group. We put everyone on a team, and more often than not, it's by age, not skill.

I don't have the same amount of athletes to pull from to create my team as a large gym does. I don't have the same caliber athletes, with the same dedication, as big gyms do. I will never have full team tumbling. This puts me at a disadvantage at every competition.

As a coach, I do my best to improve each girls' skills and to create the best routine I can, given the ability level overall, and I'm seeing success this year. However, I do cringe occassionally when seeing certain gyms in my division knowing there isn't a chance for us... It's not about the winning vs losing, as much as it's competing against "like" teams. Teams that have the same challenges I have.

I've personally never seen a large gym abuse the small gym category. I know we've had to actually register for "small gym" when we signed up originally with certain producers because one time we forgot and were automatically added to the large gym category by default.

This is why I don't like the Small Gym division. (we have 3 teams and 60 kids, btw)

Why can't you have the same caliber of athletes? Why aren't they dedicated? Why will you NEVER have full team tumbling? If you go in feeling like its an insurmountable task to compete with the larger teams, then you probably never will be competitive with them.

When I look at a schedule and see that we're against a gym that has 6+ teams is competing against for example our Sr 3.
They'll most likely also have a sr 4 or 5, which tells me that their kids that have standing tucks or layouts or better are most likely not on their Sr 3.
This will put them against my sr 3 that has:
full squad toe touch 2 back handsprings
5 kids who don't have a running tuck yet 2 are basically there, just not consistently doing it on their own yet
6 kids with layouts or better (which means good clean speciality passes to tuck)
The other 9 all have round off bhs tucks

I don't see where my gym is at a disadvantage.

 

[SharkDad]

This is why I don't like the Small Gym division. (we have 3 teams and 60 kids, btw)

Why can't you have the same caliber of athletes? Why aren't they dedicated? Why will you NEVER have full team tumbling? If you go in feeling like its an insurmountable task to compete with the larger teams, then you probably never will be competitive with them.

I am glad to hear that perspective from a small gym owner. I think some people read the opinion of anyone at a large gym and think "well that's easy to say, you are already large and have the advantage"

I have been associated with 5 different gyms. 4 of them were small and 3 had less than 50 people. I have been through the trials of watching what I percieved to be the disadvantage of being from a smaller pool of athletes. The biggest challenges we faced the gym owners or coaches put on us by having unrealistic expectations or terrible organizational skills. (one of those small gyms was actually pretty good, don't want to make them all sound bad)

I hate to hear of any gym that is not being successful because that means there are a number of kids and parents that are not having a good experience. If you feel like you're struggling against the other gyms in your area, I'd be happy to share my experiences with you and provide suggestions where simple changes can help any gym be successful at building a group of kids that care enough about them that they won't leave no matter what big gym is in their area. I'm not a gym owner or coach, but I'd offer leadership, instructional, and organizational experience to anyone who'd like a fresh look.

 

[Hungry]

Why can't you have the same caliber of athletes? Why aren't they dedicated? Why will you NEVER have full team tumbling? If you go in feeling like its an insurmountable task to compete with the larger teams, then you probably never will be competitive with them.

I will never have full team tumbling, because some of the girls just WON'T tumble. We take anyone who wants to cheer, and honestly, some of these girls would only make a level 1 team, if at all, at a large gym. I have a girl who's brand new to cheer this year. She's just learning a cartwheel (we're level 3), but she tries hard and wants to improve and she's having a great time!

I think a lot of the higher caliber athletes choose a large, well know, successful gym that is nearby. This gym is very good and wins almost every division, every competition. Who doesn't like to win? However, their gym style and ours is very different and there are people that choose us for different reasons.

I AM having success this season because, as a coach, I don't give up. I continue to do what I can to make our routine and athletes as competitive as possible, as well as trying my best to make sure the kids and their families have a great experience!

 

[Num1Stunta]

Coming from a small gym, I will say that I like the separation at a bigger national like NCA or Cheersport... but, we hold our own locally, so I don't see a need for it at EVERY event. In fact, my particular team has not lost to a smaller gym EVER. We are always against the big dogs, and sometimes we win and sometimes we don't... but we always beat other small gyms. Hell, if Cheersport had the small gym divisions still last season, we would have had jackets.

In terms of the full team tumbling issue mentioned by Hungry, I can absolutely relate for two reasons:
1. We have a no-cut policy, and only one team to offer for each age division... which means 17 year olds who can't forward roll are ending up on my senior team with kids who have tucks and layouts and have been cheering 8-10 yrs.

2. Because we have a limited amount of space, and a limited number of days available to us at the gym we use, I can only have one night a week to tumble the entire program. A good portion of my seniors are only able to make it to a few of those sessions due to having jobs, having to watch siblings, or having no way of getting to the gym (no money for bus/cab, no car in the family, no parent available to drive, etc)

I can have anywhere from 7- 20 kids in a tumbling class at one time, in a gym where you can't even fit a pass longer than 3 skills, and without enough equipment to even set up enough basic drills to keep all of these kids occupied while I'm trying to tumble them on my own.... no tumble trak, no trampoline, no spring floor... I have to wait until warmups at competition in order to run my tumble sequence fullout, because we can't fit it on the floor! Tell me, how am I supposed to get full team tumbling in this current situation?

We hold our own, like I said... I have 14 out of 20 with standing skills in our level, will probably be at 15-16 by the end of the season, but there will always be those 4 or 5 girls who I have to hide during tumbling

 

[SharkDad]

Sounds like you are doing well with what you have

 

[Num1Stunta]

Sounds like you are doing well with what you have

Thanks, we do what we can! I just hope and pray that some day we will be able to move into a full gym... I can't help but wonder just how much more we could be doing for our kids if we had the financial resources/ equipment we need. I think alot of them would become gymrats!

 

[Hungry]

Coming from a small gym, I will say that I like the separation at a bigger national like NCA or Cheersport... but, we hold our own locally, so I don't see a need for it at EVERY event.

Agreed 100%!

 

[Katybugmom]

We don't turn anyone away either so our skills and age vary greatly at the beginning. I love that about our gym and our coaches have done amazing this year. We went from three strong tumblers to all but 1 on our team having a standing bhs and most having multiple rbhs and tumbling speciality passes for level 2. It can be done but it is harder when you start with a large variety of skills rather than at tryouts you have an entire team that already has tumb;ing. It is also a challange to find coaches and team members that work well together with a large age difference 8-16 co-ed. Coaching 8 year olds is different than all high school kids. I would love to see an average age used if a gym only has one team.

 

[IEA.Elizabeth]

Can someone please PM me with an example of a large gym that claimed small gym status just because they only took a small number of kids to a comp? I've neer seen it actually happen.

Not saying anything bad about this gym whatsoever I'm actually pulling for Beatles to win worlds this year BUT I have seen Rockstar do this and then because of that got a Bid to the D2 summit (which I feel defeats the purpose but whatever) I don't think this is fair to the true small gyms that are doing the best they can with what the have


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[luluscamom]

Drives me NUTS when I see this! I saw Cheerforce last year with teams at D2! WHAT? I understand that some locations have the "small gym" criteria but COME ON! Why would you WANT to do that? I won't claim I know the situation but I KNOW it looks bad. And being part of a "large gym" program it made me cringe and say "I hope people know WE don't do that. Large gyms with multiple locations DO have an advantage. Someone gets injured Close to big comps you're darn right they'll hit each other up for help. Worlds athletes can't cross so even though it's a last choice thing to do they STILL HAVE THAT OPTION. Small gyms don't. It's not fair and I say it's cheating. I don't want people to think ALL large programs do the same.


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[luv2cheer92]

Not saying anything bad about this gym whatsoever I'm actually pulling for Beatles to win worlds this year BUT I have seen Rockstar do this and then because of that got a Bid to the D2 summit (which I feel defeats the purpose but whatever) I don't think this is fair to the true small gyms that are doing the best they can with what the have


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Small locations of big programs were not eligible for D2 bids this year. Next season they will no longer be allowed to compete D2 at any comp during the season as they were this year. This is for any multi-location smaller satellite gym.

 

[cheermomforever]

Might be a newbie POV, but I'm wondering why there's a need for a small/large gym distinction. I've seen plenty of large gyms whose teams are considerably worse than small gyms. I'm wondering if the real issue at hand isn't small/large gym, but a recognition that there's a wide enough talent disparity in the same level that the teams need to be segregated.

Coming from a small gym there's def advantage to being a bigger gym....u have a bigger pool of kids to make teams, you can make a full team of athletes with skills for that level, if someone leaves or is injured you have multiple bodies to fill in. We do not compete as a "small" gym and luckily still do well.

 

[IEA.Elizabeth]

Small locations of big programs were not eligible for D2 bids this year. Next season they will no longer be allowed to compete D2 at any comp during the season as they were this year. This is for any multi-location smaller satellite gym.

I meant last year haha sorry I just reread it I wasn't very clear on it and team from my gym was the first team from my area to get to go to D2 summit/summit and didn't get to go to the final day because and 2 "big gyms" beat them out for it and it just upset me for them because they worked so hard and there routine was the best it could have been


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