All-Star Small Gym Summit

[catlady]

I'll take a stab at this solely from a business perspective. I stalked Fierce Board long before I signed up but, I remember a thread with parents stating how nice it would be if they had a lower level World's....low and behold, The Summit came along. Negative comments on unlimited crossovers..... the number was reduced that could come from World's athletes. We want more bids....Wild Cards came along. Someone is listening, HOWEVER, every time we ask for something we are effecting gym owners businesses. And let's face facts, these bids have become the parent/athlete obsession in All Star.

I recently posted how small gyms seasons usually consist of several local one days and for the season closer a not too far in the distance two day. So, the first two years, small gyms essentially had a very slim chance of getting a Summit bid just based on the fact they don't attend as many two day comps as the large gyms. Would you leave your small gym to go to a large gym for a greater chance at a Summit bid? My guess, some people did and as the Summit grows, more will leave. So along came Wild Cards and there has been a good response to gyms willing to take them. The problem? Families are then going to complain they have to pay for a trip to Disney with a 1 day shot at moving forward in the Summit competition. Will families still leave the small gym to go to the larger gyms because of more shots at Summit bids? My guess, is "yes" they will continue to lose families.

Us parents really do steer this business in the direction it is going, otherwise, it wouldn't be growing at its current rate. Varsity actually does a great job at listening to its consumers IMO, however, they have to respond to the business owners concerns in the process. If this was a step in the direction to protect its small gym owners, I applaud Varsity, from an outside business perspective it was a wise move.

 

[Southern Cheer]

Its all about what you put in to it. We always wanted to not be in the small gym divisions. It gave us a chance to see how we stacked up. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. Even with a loss though kids liked seeing how they stacked up against our regional competitors (Stingrays, ACE, Pro Cheer, GA Allstars, ATA, Premier Athletics) all programs with great lower levels and level 5 teams. On occasion we would win (beat a large stingrays prep teams w/ 20? girls with our prep teams of 6) Prepare your kids and attack the score sheet, compete, and then make changes when needed. Been on the flip side too. Had our Senior Coed 3 team w/ 20 (i think we had 4 boys that year) beat by a team of 12 with one little tiny guy and they took first! Been defeated my teams several times in small gym divisions as well!!!
I just think There are too many divisions so everyone wins (THIS INCLUDES A/B SPLITS) Put me in a running of 30 teams over splitting the division = True Competition.

They will have this competition, make adjustments, and keep going. This is because Suzy's mom is going to want her daughter to be some sort of Galaxy Champion at the end of the year. Teams will go due to the pressure from parents to make their kids "champions" year in and year out. Bills to pay. But if this is going to be a thing, it needs to be with the current Summit and just label it small gym division like the rest of comps. You "cheapen it " :/ by moving it and giving it a different name i believe.

 

[Helen uk uni cheer]

Personally small gym summit sounds silly. There are plenty of nationals small gyms could attend. Persoanlly if you are up against a big gym then you work harder for it. Last year we knew we had a huge division and worked our butts off and we came 3rd out of 17.

Im now at a tiny gym and we might not win but aslong as we do our best the coaches will be proud. So small gym summit or not its really the mentality of the gym

 

[BowsnBling]

To answer an above question, as a small gym you can opt out of the small summit championship and go to the regular summit, you are not forced to go to the small gym one.

 

[SL&AM]

Yeah - you'd think even the smallest gym out there would be able to put together a competitive level 2 team? Unless it's because of sandbagging of level 4-5 athletes down to level 2 teams at big gyms preventing it.
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CP came from a very small gym, far far less than the 150 athlete requirement, and I'd say from her program no way. A level 2 team? Yes, but a truly competitive one that could get to the normal Summit? Not a chance in h*ll.

I don't agree with this new model, but I can understand why it'd be thought of.

 

[stuntjumptumble]

I am not a fan of this whatsoever. Splitting the divisions isn't a good idea. Small gyms who complain about going against big gyms, why does it matter? They are the same level and I think it should push the smaller gyms to work even harder to beat those big gyms. If divisions keeps splitting it's just going to make cheer less and less competitive


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[quitthedrama]

I was a pretty strong advocate for DI and DII Worlds, so I don't have an issue with this either. I am not a fan of the Summit. It is not the best of the best when you can get a bid and then replace the entire team for the Summit and have unlimited crossovers, (I don't think a lot of gyms do this btw, but it does happen). Just as I would have wanted for a DII Worlds, I think it should be completely separate from the actual Summit - different date and/or location. If you don't want to play with the big dogs - fine - but you don't get the prestige of competing with the big dogs if that makes any sense.
If you are not with a small gym, I don't think it is fair to say "they should compete with everybody". I feel like many of the people saying "this isn't fair" are from very large gyms. How would you know what it is like to be a small gym? I don't think any large gym is going to say "my Worlds ring or Summit ring is tarnished because Hello Kitties Small Gym didn't compete against me". I don't see it as "giving everyone a trophy", but rather giving gyms an opportunity to compete on a more level playing field. I have more of an issue with competitions doing division splits than with this.

 

[hawkeye87]

Bill Gates Speech on 11 Rules of Life - Urban Legends
I love this though not from Bill Gates but from another author it still resonates. . Rule 8 in particular applies to this situation. We need to stop needing to make everyone a winner because lets face it in the real world YOU DON'T ALWAYS WIN!!!!! As parents we are supposed to prepare our kids for the future and changing the rules of the game so that your kid always win is not teaching them anything.

 

[catlady]

Although I agree with the Bill Gates list on the rules of life, I don't believe this event is being added to provide more winners. If they wanted to provide more winners they could do so without having a totally separate event. I'm, also, surprised to hear so many complaining about division splits because, many threads have been spent discussing reliable judging once a division gets too large.

The Summit has grown tremendously and we keep reading comments on "there aren't enough bids" and "it's harder to get a bid to the Summit than World's" but, increasing opportunities also means the need for more arena space, judges, and accommodations. Small/Large gym splits already exist at many of the competitions so, to me, this was a no brainer. If they want to eventually allow Tiny's and Mini's to come, this could possibly allow for that to happen. And, if a small gym wants to compete with the large gyms, it appears they will accommodate them. This isn't going to make the rings any more or less desirable, or any less prestigious to those that want them.

 

[quitthedrama]

I'm, also, surprised to hear so many complaining about division splits because, many threads have been spent discussing reliable judging once a division gets too large.

When teams are judged against a scoresheet, it shouldn't matter how big the division is. I think there would still be some bias in going earlier than later, but not to the same extent as comparative scoring. When teams are judged with comparative scoring, then I agree division splits are necessary, but it would be nice to have a finals after that to determine a true division winner.

 

[MOPSMommy1]

I think maybe putting some rules in place for The Summit might be a good idea before trying to create a small gym summit. In particular the whole qualifying with one team but bringing a completely different team to The Summit...