All-Star So, I've Been Thinking About This Whole 4.2 Thing...

[Num1Stunta]

I love the 4.2 division. I think it's perfect for many different types of programs- programs with a lot of older kids who can't tumble, programs who don't have adequate tumbling facilities, programs who attract a lot of high school kids on a half year team, etc. But, to echo @libertycoach in their post on the 4.2 thread, many of the teams out there this past season in this division were barely even showing level 3 stunts. Now, I know the LAST thing we all want is to add more divisions, but hear me out for a sec...

The gap between a Level 4 athlete and a Level 2 athlete is kind of huge. We're seeing a lot of Level 4 kids being dropped onto 4.2 to sandbag, and we're seeing a lot of Level 2/3 kids being placed on 4.2 because they either don't want to be Level 2 or don't have the tumbling to be Level 3. Those are the kids who struggle to hit the Level 4 stunts. So, what if we use the same logic that we did to create 4.2- older kids whose stunting is more advanced than their tumbling- and create 2 different divisions altogether- 4.3 and 3.2? (In other words, no more 4.2).... It could possibly be the death of Senior 3, now that I look at it lol

To me, it would make more sense to keep the gap between tumbling and stunting skills somewhat small. I think a kid who can throw Level 3 tumbling is going to be better physically conditioned to be hitting those Level 4 stunts than a kid who is still perfecting a bhs.

OR, another consideration would be, as was proposed in a few levels this year, to just alter the stunting restrictions a bit for JUST senior teams in each level, to make a Level 2 or 3 team seem a little bit more enticing to a 17 year old.

Say for Senior teams you keep tumbling progressions as is, but allow:

Baskets:
Level 1- straight ride
Level 2- non-twisting 1-trick baskets, no x-outs
Level 3- twisting baskets and x-outs
Level 4 &5 stay the same

Stunts:
Level 1- prep level one leg, extension straight cradle
Level 2- extended one leg straight cradle, single twists from prep
Level 3- extended one leg single twist cradle, single twists from extended two feet
Level 4&5 stay the same

Pyramids:
Level 1- similar to the old Level 2 rules, requiring double brace for extended one leg
Level 2- add non-flipping, double braced release moves
Level 3- release moves only have to be single braced
Level 4&5 stay the same

ahhh the late night ramble lol.... go ahead, discuss

 

[CoachKelly]

Personally, I would love your idea. We are a small town small team. We don't have many tumblers but we can stunt and like you said not real consistent at level 4. But to drop our whole team down to level 2 also restricts us way too much so we end up being level 3 but we can not earn enough tumbling points to ever place First.

 

[srt418]

I think it sounds great, but I am worried that this will become a trend in tumbling. I think a lot of teams are already stronger in stunting than tumbling. We already have the 4.2, senior restricted 5, and we could have more divisions that lower the tumbling requirements and raise the stunting requirements.

Don't get me wrong, this sounds great for many girls. There are just going to be some girls that are not going to tumble. However, there are plenty more girls that don't tumble because they think they don't need to, or are too lazy to learn tumbling skills. I would be concerned that these lazy girls or the ones that just don't care about tumbling would start flocking towards those divisions. Then we have a dilemma.

 

[REA Dad]

I'm not a fan of 4.2, some great teams but I fear it will lead to a drop off in tumbling skills. I see both level 3 and 4 suffering in years to come because of 4.2. Level 1, 2 and 5 will stay strong but we will lose girls pushing for level 3 and 4 tumbling skills if they don't have to do it to stunt at level 4.

 

[kjstepone]

I doubt there will be a big support of changing level 1 to have baskets and the stunts you've stated. But I've been wrong before..

 

[Just-a-Mom]

Normally I agree with a lot of your ideas @Num1Stunta but this one I just have to disagree with. Mostly just because I strongly feel like we. have. enough. divisions. Soon every gym is going to be able to have their own division. I already see gyms entering in levels they have no business being in just because they know they're the only gym in their area in that division, so they can have lots of trophies. I totally agree with @srt418 and @REA Dad that this will just lead to girls not upping their tumbling skills because they don't need to.

This is an all around sport. You have to be good at a lot of things. Leveling up is a reward...not a right. I'm not sure why we feel the need to make it easier for people to level up. It's not just about stunting, or tumbling, or jumping, or dancing. My daughter is an amazing jumper, an awesome dancer, and she can base ANYTHING. But she can't tumble. We spend hours in the gym, and lots of money on tumbling classes...but the truth is that she is 16 years old, didn't start cheering until she was 13, and she probably isn't going to get much more tumbling skills. Does that mean I think they should create a 5.3 level so she can show off her awesome other skills? No. Would I love for her to be on a higher level team and just get a "pass" on the tumbling? Of course, but she and I both know that she will probably be on Senior 3 again this year--because that's where she belongs because she doesn't have ALL the skills to move up.

I'm sorry that not all kids in the world can fit into the molds the levels/divisions make, but we can't just keep making new divisions to accommodate everyone. At what point is it toooo many divisions? At what point do we say..."Oh, sorry. You have to get better at everything, and then you can move up"?

(***Note: if my non-tumbling baby makes a higher level team than she should probably be on because of her awesome other skills, please disregard this post )

 

[cupieqt]

I've always wondered what to do with teams that fall in between skill levels. It's a huge problem for small gyms so I often find myself wishing for a 1.2, 2.3, 3.2 or 3.4 lol. I have no need for 4.2 bc our tumbling is good--it's the rest we need to level down!
We get a lot of gymnasts but it takes them a while to get the rest of the skills needed for cheer.
1. Jumps--they don't get the prep
2. motions--no precision at all
3. stunts--this they can catch on to quickly but u have to fast forward through progressions which contributes to bad technique.
4. dance---ever watched a floor routine? Very different and much slower.

 

[cupieqt]

And yea....we have too many divisions so it's not necessary. Just fun to think about!

 

[5-6-7-8]

I have only seen a few 4.2 teams, but the ones I have, I haven't been impressed with the stunting. I agree that it may be too much of a gap between level 2 tumbling and level 4 stunting.

However, I understand the reasoning behind having this division. I don't necessarily love the idea of adding more divisions, but perhaps there is something to slightly increasing the stunting for senior levels 1-3 as you laid out.

 

[Num1Stunta]

Ok, new plan... how about just changing the scoresheets to be similar to the International scoresheets at worlds- tumbling is weighted as less than stunts? This could solve a lot of problems, especially for small gyms

 

[THEacademy]

I don't think there should be more divisions. First off, most of the 4.2 aren't that good unless the athletes on the team have been on a level 4 team. If people are being brought up from lower teams to compete 4.2 they are most likely not as experienced as someone who was on a higher team. I honestly do not think there should be inbetween teams just 1,2,3,4,5,and 6.

 

[GeorgiaCheerleader]

I'd love to be on a 4.2 team. I only have a BHS and I'm a good flyer (I can do a level 5 stunt routine).
Too bad they have no level 4.2 around here...

 

[NEliteTexas]

We have/had a level 4.2 and it worked great. We spent most of the summer on tumbling and basic stunts (for technique) and then spent the fall moving up our stunt difficulty. We hit solid low-highs, double downs, and tick tocks by nationals. We actually had a more difficult stunt sequence than at least half the teams that we level 4 at UCA... Granted, not all 4.2 teams were like this, but it worked out well for us!