All-Star The Key Ingredient.

[StarshipTrooper]

I am convinced the key ingredient for any cheer routine is athleticism. The ability to do the routine cleanly as choreographed, do your skills effortlessly, keep your energy and walk off the mat together like you are not even tired. All other things being equal the athletic team will win virtually every time, and even with a disadvantage in some areas, the athletic team can prevail.

 

[Level5Mom]

I am convinced the key ingredient for any cheer routine is athleticism. The ability to do the routine cleanly as choreographed, do your skills effortlessly, keep your energy and walk off the mat together like you are not even tired. All other things being equal the athletic team will win virtually every time, and even with a disadvantage in some areas, the athletic team can prevail.

I agree with you 100%.

 

[King]

I disagree somewhat. If you walk off the mat not tired, why didn't you do more on the mat?

 

[Level5Mom]

I disagree somewhat. If you walk off the mat not tired, why didn't you do more on the mat?

I don't think he meant NOT tired, he meant NOT about to collapse from being unconditioned. Correct me if I'm wrong...

 

[King]

There is a razors edge for all the top teams in their division. If you hit the heck out of your routine and are athletic and do not have an issue hitting repeatedly, but you get 3rd or 2nd repeatedly should your routine be harder?

Cheer is a weird sport. It does NOT reward consistency. It rewards performing a routine once, one time, perfectly. So if you have one hit in you a year for the hardest routine in your division you win worlds, even if you didn't hit all year long.

 

[Level5Mom]

There is a razors edge for all the top teams in their division. If you hit the heck out of your routine and are athletic and do not have an issue hitting repeatedly, but you get 3rd or 2nd repeatedly should your routine be harder?

Cheer is a weird sport. It does NOT reward consistency. It rewards performing a routine once, one time, perfectly. So if you have one hit in you a year for the hardest routine in your division you win worlds, even if you didn't hit all year long.

I think if you are a conditioned athlete, you have an advantage. If you can hit the heck out of your routine, yes you should increase your difficulty. But often times you can add difficulty without adding much physical exertion ( a 1/2 up to immediate versus a 1 1/4 up).

If you are a very conditioned athlete it is also easier to add one more difficult element that does require more exertion (one more jump, a whip before your double, etc.). That VERY conditioned athlete will easily and quickly be able to handle that within a few practices.

A team that can barely make it through a full-out cannot add difficulty no matter how much they need it. Athletes should be conditioned to be stronger than the routines they are throwing, not just strong enough. But you knew I'd say that King .

 

[WCMAN]

Disagree... Athletes always have an advantage but they need the head to go with it. The mental portion is just as important. An athlete can physically push their way to excellence but a weak mind can push itself to error.

 

[King]

I think if you are a conditioned athlete, you have an advantage. If you can hit the heck out of your routine, yes you should increase your difficulty. But often times you can add difficulty without adding much physical exertion ( a 1/2 up to immediate versus a 1 1/4 up).

If you are a very conditioned athlete it is also easier to add one more difficult element that does require more exertion (one more jump, a whip before your double, etc.). That VERY conditioned athlete will easily and quickly be able to handle that within a few practices.

A team that can barely make it through a full-out cannot add difficulty no matter how much they need it. Athletes should be conditioned to be stronger than the routines they are throwing, not just strong enough. But you knew I'd say that King .

I did, haha. And per our earlier conversation I have spent quite a bit of time thinking about it and I think it is a delicate balance. As you get to the higher level your team should be pushing and increasing their skill level constantly of their routine UNTIL you choose a set time before that skill must be competed and you have that amount of time to work and perfect. Meaning every team that competed at NCA and won should not be stopping with that routine. There needs to be an increase of skill past their current ability that they can hit at this moment. You set that bar high enough and 'stop' progressing enough time out before a major competition so that your team peaks right when the competition hits. Why? because hitting in the gym really isn't worth anything but confidence. My wife has had plenty of teams that cannot hit in the gym to save their life, but can hit when it counts. As well I have seen teams hit all the time in the gym but not when it counts. Past just the physical ability the mental ability to hit when the moment is at its largest is hard to teach and capture.

 

[Level5Mom]

Disagree... Athletes always have an advantage but they need the head to go with it. The mental portion is just as important. An athlete can physically push their way to excellence but a weak mind can push itself to error.

I agree with you. But a team full of physically strong athletes that does not have to worry about getting through a routine physically can focus all efforts on the mental side. An athlete barely conditioned enough to hit the routine itself has to worry about physical and mental. In my mind, that still provides an advantage.

 

[King]

I agree with you. But a team full of physically strong athletes that does not have to worry about getting through a routine physically can focus all efforts on the mental side. An athlete barely conditioned enough to hit the routine itself has to worry about physical and mental. In my mind, that still provides an advantage.

On the reverse in college lots of the best stunters are large, out of shape, and have a lot of mass. But they get through the routine because their physical mass makes everything building wise soooooo much easier.

 

[King]

Now that doesn't mean athleticism isn't an advantage. I don't disagree with that. I just think its an element that goes into this tenuous balance of a routine.

 

[cheer4ever0522]

#thatawkwardmomentwhenyoushimmyeverypostinathread

 

[King]

Gonna say it even another way: I'll take a team full of conditioned athletes over non conditioned athletes.

I'll take a team of mentally tough kids over not tough kids.

I'll take extremely skilled people over not skilled people.

But in that which one of the three is worth more?

 

[Level5Mom]

I did, haha. And per our earlier conversation I have spent quite a bit of time thinking about it and I think it is a delicate balance. As you get to the higher level your team should be pushing and increasing their skill level constantly of their routine UNTIL you choose a set time before that skill must be competed and you have that amount of time to work and perfect. Meaning every team that competed at NCA and won should not be stopping with that routine. There needs to be an increase of skill past their current ability that they can hit at this moment. You set that bar high enough and 'stop' progressing enough time out before a major competition so that your team peaks right when the competition hits. Why? because hitting in the gym really isn't worth anything but confidence. My wife has had plenty of teams that cannot hit in the gym to save their life, but can hit when it counts. As well I have seen teams hit all the time in the gym but not when it counts. Past just the physical ability the mental ability to hit when the moment is at its largest is hard to teach and capture.

I agree with you also. My response to WCMAN applies to this post as well. I support everything you just typed about increasing skill for each comp as you can and stabilizing it pre-comp.

If you are saying that mental is AS important as physical, then I will agree with you. My point though is that when your athletes are stronger than the routine they are throwing, they can focus on everything else because they are not gasping for air and their arms are not giving out by the time pyramid rolls around.

Physical strength is one aspect of cheer that athletes have complete control over. It is a no-brainer. A team should never ever lose because they weren't conditioned enough to handle their own routine. The body reponds to the training you put it through by making itself stronger. You can give a team the hardest routine ever and as long as you train them appropriately for it, they will be able to physically handle it without exhaustion. This is why athletes can run marathons...they train for it. Training a cheer team appropriately....well that is another issue haha.

 

[Level5Mom]

Gonna say it even another way: I'll take a team full of conditioned athletes over non conditioned athletes.

I'll take a team of mentally tough kids over not tough kids.

I'll take extremely skilled people over not skilled people.

But in that which one of the three is worth more?

Excellent question. My answer is none is more important than the other.

HOWEVER,

You have 100% control over the physical condition state of your team. The other 2 you only have partial control over. So make sure your team is stronger than their routine (which also prevents injuries), and it becomes a non-issue.