Thinking Of Giving Up On A Stunt

[Big_Sis]

The squad I'm assistant coaching for is doing great on every stunt we practice except for one. It's a walk-in-hands press up to extension (semi-single-base) stunt. Side base supports main base's right wrist and back spot steadies flyer's ankles while main base presses her up to extension.

It's just not working. At first I thought Little Sis (the flyer) was the problem because she wasn't getting her left foot around the base's shoulders to her left hand. Figured out she was used to balancing her weight equally so the left side kept dropping before it was secure. We told her to step up like she was going to do a Liberty and put most of her weight on her right leg until the base had hold of her left foot.

That seemed to help until I noticed that now the back spot is releasing Little's right ankle because she feels the weight shift & thinks she needs to steady the stunt by grabbing higher up her leg. Then the right ankle is not supported so Little tries to steady by leaning left and the base still doesn't have her foot secure and omg, it's just a disaster.

At the last game Little hit the dirt from full extension and hurt her hip. Our mom was NOT happy. I'm stressing over it, trying not to be mad at the back spot, and I'm thinking this stunt group is never gonna get it. In addition, I personally don't think the main base has the upper body strength to basically do what a guy would be doing in a partner stunt.

At my wits end and so DONE with this stunt!!! Have other teams had a particularly hairy stunt that just never worked right so you dropped it out of rotation? Or am I just over-reacting coz it's Little Sis getting dropped repeatedly? Aaargh...

 

[Xtremecoach]

I now have boys on my team however, I did this stunt with all girls at one point. It can be a tough stunt and putting it to an extension can be tough also. My suggestion would be take your stronger of the 2 spotters and hvae that one in front of stunt. Have her help in the load in, have her grab at her calfs and bottom grab at her waist, have flyer grab bottoms wrists and on a count all dip together and go to a prep level one man - the back spot at this time will grab the ankles to help assist any adjustments the bottom needs. Once she is steady at the prep level power press her up make sure that the bottom does not move hands forward (where flyer is toeing) make sure foot stays solid, have the spotters assist in the lift and the front spotter can then step to side if you need and help with the ankles. I tried it this way with my girls and it seemed to work for my girls. Like I said I now have boys and it loads so much easier and smoother, but you have to work with what you have. Good Luck

 

[Big_Sis]

Ok, if I read your post correctly the flyer is stationary when they begin to load? I think that would help a lot but the head coach wants the flyer to "run-in" from behind the bases (coz she thinks it "looks more impressive" ... don't get me started, ugh). So the flyer runs up & steps in with right foot, back spot gives her a push up on her seat, then grabs ankles while flyer moves left leg around base's head to her left side & futilely tries to find the left hand. omg can you tell I'm still fuming about this?

Anyway if I didn't explain this right, it KINDA looks like this stunt:



but with the boost on the seat from the back spot & a side base supporting main's right wrist. Little is tight & stiff as a board, but she's losing confidence every time they attempt this stunt. At the last practice she even had a few "balks" (when she approached but didn't load in). I can't baby her or show any favoritism but it's hard to see a girl go from completely fearless to hesitant & unsure & having anxiety bout this one stupid stunt.

I do think we need to adjust how she loads in coz this is not working. (and I haven't even mentioned the other factors like the side base is waaaay shorter than the other 2 which affects how high they can get the flyer to set in for prep AND the back spot has attitude coz she's always been a flyer but then GROWING & PUBERTY happened & she had to change roles.) I could go on and on but I gotta stop coz I'm gettin heated just thinking about it. And I just feel like if I'M goin into stunt practice like this, its gonna rub off on them & I don't want that to happen. :-(

 

[ashscott41]

There should be several steps leading up to the stunt you're describing. Start from a stationary lib style load in and once that's perfect work up to the walk in. Once that's perfect move on to the press extension. It is imperative that the fly keep all weight over her right leg until she feels the hand on her left foot and things settle into hands. It sounds like she is trying to do too much, and just needs to focus on standing up as if in a lib. And that's it. Nothing else. Do you have stairs at home? Have her start on the ground with her right foot up two stairs as if in a lib load in position. Then without touching the railing, using her glutes and quads/hamstrings have her stand up into a dead leg (I've heard this called a few things, but basically like a lib but with no body position, just all weight in right leg and left leg dangling right next to it). You also mention that it is the flyer looking for the base's hand to put her foot in but it should be the other way around. Fly should just be dangling the foot next to her base leg and it is back and base's job to grab it. Obviously spot around the stunt in case anything goes wrong, but tell the back that she must keep her right hand on right ankle and isn't allowed to move it. Left hand should push up on the bum and then go straight for left ankle immediately. If she can get to the left ankle before base gets left foot she can slow it down and make things much more stable. For the press to extension, it's all about timing and legs. All bases must dip together and lift together. Timing is seriously everything.

It also might be helpful to switch around the base positions if possible. These stunts are easiest when the secondary (who ends up holding both feet) is the shortest base, the backspot is the tallest base, and the base in the middle height starts in the main position and stays on right foot. She should keep ahold of the right toe and use her left hand to support the secondary's wrist on the fly's heel. This way there are three people actively helping to lift the stunt and keep it in the air, whereas it sounds like the way your stunt is currently set up there is one base unable to do much. If things still aren't working, maybe try taking a video and posting it here so we can get a better idea of where things are going wrong. I know this is long, but I hope it makes sense and helps you out at least a little bit. Good luck and I hope things get better for your team!


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[Big_Sis]

Ash, everything you said makes perfect sense to me! And we told her to put her weight on the right, which she did and it worked, but then back spot would let go of her ankle and things would get unsteady. And THANK YOU for saying flyer is trying to do too much! It's a GROUP stunt, she shouldnt have to be solely responsible for makin it work.

Its hard sometime for me to figure out if I'm thinking about this differently coz its my sister being put at risk every single time. But I honestly feel like I would feel this frustration with the other stunt group too! I dont want to see any flyer repeatedly wobble or fall or get hurt and lose their confidence. Little sis has always been like eager & ready to try anything.

At the Homecoming game, Varsity wanted to do a pendulum but the girl who does it had a hurt ankle. So they called Little over & just popped her up & did it. She had never done it before & didn't even really know what she was supposed to be doing, but she pulled it off and it looked good! (btw I wouldn't have let someone who had never practiced a stunt just throw it up there during a game - but I was on the other side of the field at the time running an errand for the head coach and only saw what was goin on when I was on the way back. Ok I know she pulled it off and all but that's not safe! What is the head coach thinking?!!)

Anyway thank for the advice, it makes a lot of sense to me! I think the back spot is slacking when it comes to placing Little's foot. On the one hand, it's her first time basing/backspotting so I don't wanna be too hard on her. But on the other, she obviously hates it & it shows on her face & how she acts at practice. I feel like she's not being serious enough. Little should have NEVER hit the dirt as hard as she did last time. Backspot didn't even catch her a little bit or slow her fall. I think THAT's actually what is making me the maddest.



* Edited to add: they are a JV squad (only juniors/seniors can do varsity) and don't practice with varsity so she'd never even seen the pendulum done. She just knew what it was from watching youtube videos

 

[Xtremecoach]

It is truly hard when you see something not working and have no power to make those necesary changes needed to make it work. If you go ahead and change it when the head coach isn't there and it works will she make you change it back? I have found when I was an assistant that i would make a suggestion and when it would go to deaf ears I would try it my way on down time and if it work present it to the head coach, sometimes she would be in agree-ance and sometimes not, but it is worth a shot other then being shot down all the time.

Now that I am a head coach I truly try and listen to all my coaches, and take their opinions because something I have in my head might not be practical.

I hope that you can make this work, because once you lose a flyer its hard to get them back to that fearless stage.

Good Luck

 

[seein_starz]

I do this same stunt in my routine. Mine has not been hitting as we'll but it's just because my flyer shifts her wait before I can catch her other foot. Try doing them to halfs then pressing extension then once you've got that down move up to straight up extensions. Maybe try changing the main bases grip in the beginning.


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[Ems]

Anyway thank for the advice, it makes a lot of sense to me! I think the back spot is slacking when it comes to placing Little's foot. On the one hand, it's her first time basing/backspotting so I don't wanna be too hard on her. But on the other, she obviously hates it & it shows on her face & how she acts at practice. I feel like she's not being serious enough. Little should have NEVER hit the dirt as hard as she did last time. Backspot didn't even catch her a little bit or slow her fall. I think THAT's actually what is making me the maddest.



* Edited to add: they are a JV squad (only juniors/seniors can do varsity) and don't practice with varsity so she'd never even seen the pendulum done. She just knew what it was from watching youtube videos

If she's pulling an attitude about backing and is letting flyers fall because of it, I would pull her from stunting. Ideally, if you have an extra girl put her in, or a front spot who could back. If she isn't being serious then she can sit out of stunting and nugget in the back during halftimes. If you don't have someone extra, then it will suck for the whole group who doesn't get to stunt or only stunts partially, but I have absolutely no tolerance for someone who gives attitude about their stunting stop and lets a flyer fall. It's unacceptable and she should sit out until she decides to get serious and do her job. And I get you don't want to be too hard on her, but this a team and everyone is needed at every position. We can't all be flyers.

 

[Big_Sis]

If she's pulling an attitude about backing and is letting flyers fall because of it, I would pull her from stunting. Ideally, if you have an extra girl put her in, or a front spot who could back. If she isn't being serious then she can sit out of stunting and nugget in the back during halftimes. If you don't have someone extra, then it will suck for the whole group who doesn't get to stunt or only stunts partially, but I have absolutely no tolerance for someone who gives attitude about their stunting stop and lets a flyer fall. It's unacceptable and she should sit out until she decides to get serious and do her job. And I get you don't want to be too hard on her, but this a team and everyone is needed at every position. We can't all be flyers.

I agree with everything you said! Unfortunately, as assistant coach, I don't get much say. Also, since JV is only sophomore girls, there are only 8 of them (2 stunt groups) so if we pull her theres not much stuntin goin on. But the biggest reason is coz this girl is really good. She's sharp, she's spirited, and she's an amazing tumbler. She's actually flying with an International team at "Local Competition Gym" where the big dudes have no trouble stunting with her (our girls just happen to be really small). It would take an act of Congress to get head coach to bench her from stunting due to attitude.

But yknow it's like, ok chick I get it, you're awesome on your gym team. That's great! But the deep sighs & rolling of eyes when girls who have only ever sideline cheered for school & are trying difficult stunts for the first time is NOT sittin well with me. You play with the cards your dealt and make the most of it! Lose the attitude! argh


>seein_starz
>Maybe try changing the main bases grip in the beginning.

I think this would help a lot and could keep flyer's feet in front where base could see them instead of behind her head where she's just searching around blindly for them.


>Xtremecoach
>I hope that you can make this work, because once you lose a flyer its hard to get them back to that fearless stage.
This is what I am so scared of, especially after she balked on approach to load-in. She's never done that before and she's plainly nervous & openly looks like she's trying to psyche herself up to do it. That's so unlike her and I don't want her to lose that fearlessness & fun spirit. I'm tryin to be positive since it's just this ONE stunt and for all others she is with her regular stunt group & perfectly happy coz she totally trusts her bases. I just keep telling myself, "Deep breath, its gonna be okay" hahaha