All-Star Unfair Varsity Event

[kmackenzie12]

This past weekend I attended Spirit Festival a Varsity run competition in Connecticut. This competition has been around for many years and normally has attendance by many large northeast programs, however in the past few years more and more programs have been forgoing it, I now know why. For one the judging was very bad. The team I came to watch had two stunts fall a bobble and a touch out and only had .75 in deductions .5 for a fall and .25 for a bobble, which isn't something to complain about for them, however teams attend a varsity run competition to be fairly scored and that isn't right, who knows how many deductions were missed on other teams. This competition also gives out 3 full paid and 6 at large bids to worlds. The team I came to watch was going for a worlds bid in the international division knowing that the top three scores would be awarded the three international bids one paid and two at large. They received the second highest international score however and did not receive a at large bid, and were told that the competition had decided to change the rules and not allow teams in the same division to receive a bid for example the top scoring team in there division got the paid and they got second still with the highest score in international but did not receive a bid due to being in the same division as the team that got the paid. I am sorry but I cannot wrap my head around how this competition can change the bid declaration after the competition has happened and award a team with a lower score a bid and take it from teams that deserved it. I also can't get over the fact that judges can blatantly miss deductions, I get that everyone human but gyms are spending a lot of time and money attending and it just is not right. Anyone have a similar experience?

 

[Ashley]

The bid declaration says they can change the bid giving process at their discretion. It also says that at large bids will be awarded to the remaining division champions and then the runners up with the highest scored. Champion, CIA, and Bravo won their divisions. Spirit and Pro did not (I'm not sure what team you're specifically referring to, but I think it's Pro).

So as far as I can tell, they did exactly what the bid declaration says.

But you're right that a lot of local gyms choose not to attend this competition anymore.

eta: and someone sent me a screen shot of the bid declaration two weeks ago and it says the same thing.

 

[kmackenzie12]

The bid declaration did originally say it would award the three top scoring teams, however I have seen the revised form on the website and have also seen the disclaimer. I understand that the competition has the right to change the process however do not at all agree with it and don't understand why it would. But it's not that that raises some eyes its that the better teams with the higher scores I believe should receive the bids and I don't know why anyone would disagree with that not just at this competition as I am sure this happens all the time.

 

[Cheer Dad]

The bid declaration did originally say it would award the three top scoring teams, however I have seen the revised form on the website and have also seen the disclaimer. I understand that the competition has the right to change the process however do not at all agree with it and don't understand why it would. But it's not that that raises some eyes its that the better teams with the higher scores I believe should receive the bids and I don't know why anyone would disagree with that not just at this competition as I am sure this happens all the time.

Sorry, not following you. You are upset an AL bid went to a team in a different division with a higher score than the team you wanted?


**What if gofundme included a double your money back performance clause?**

 

[Ashley]

The bid declaration did originally say it would award the three top scoring teams, however I have seen the revised form on the website and have also seen the disclaimer. I understand that the competition has the right to change the process however do not at all agree with it and don't understand why it would. But it's not that that raises some eyes its that the better teams with the higher scores I believe should receive the bids and I don't know why anyone would disagree with that not just at this competition as I am sure this happens all the time.

When did it say that? I have a screen shot in a text message from two weeks ago that says the same thing. That was the first bid declaration I saw for the comp.

Competitions are entitled to give out their bids anyway they wish. Deciding to give bids to division winners is not new, plenty of other comps have done that. My team lost out on a bid at a different Hartford comp a few years ago because of it.

The varsity scoresheet is comparative. You really can't compare scores across divisions across divisions, so this approach is actually one of the fairer ways of doing it.

Sorry, not following you. You are upset an AL bid went to a team in a different division with a higher score than the team you wanted?


**What if gofundme included a double your money back performance clause?**

No, her team came in second place, but failed to get a bid even though they scored higher than a team that won a different division. The bid declaration says bids go to division winners.

 

[Cheer Dad]

When did it say that? I have a screen shot in a text message from two weeks ago that says the same thing. That was the first bid declaration I saw for the comp.

Competitions are entitled to give out their bids anyway they wish. Deciding to give bids to division winners is not new, plenty of other comps have done that. My team lost out on a bid at a different Hartford comp a few years ago because of it.

The varsity scoresheet is comparative. You really can't compare scores across divisions across divisions, so this approach is actually one of the fairer ways of doing it.


No, her team came in second place, but failed to get a bid even though they scored higher than a team that won a different division. The bid declaration says bids go to division winners.

Aha. Was confused.


**What if gofundme included a double your money back performance clause?**

 

[cheermomforever]

A lot if competition judges/eps do what they want and don't care about who they screw doing it. Last weekend our raw score was lowered 3 pts Sunday for the same routine plus with added doubles! From something I saw in a text the team who got one of the FP bids was already decided Fr night. It irritates the heck out of me that there is no one to complain To who cares. All the $$ wasted! Life of Allstars! I feel where u r coming from!

 

[Ashley]

This is the text I have dated Feb 26. This was also the first time my gym became aware that open teams were eligible for paid bids. We would have gone if we had known.

Now, if you want to argue that EPs should post their bid declarations in the summer, then I'm totally on board.

 

[kmackenzie12]

View attachment 804

This is the text I have dated Feb 26. This was also the first time my gym became aware that open teams were eligible for paid bids. We would have gone if we have known.

Now, if you want to argue that EPs should post their bid declarations in the summer, then I'm totally on board.

This is getting to technical but I just thought it was wrong and this should be changed. I was also confused on the judging.

 

[kmackenzie12]

A lot if competition judges/eps do what they want and don't care about who they screw doing it. Last weekend our raw score was lowered 3 pts Sunday for the same routine plus with added doubles! From something I saw in a text the team who got one of the FP bids was already decided Fr night. It irritates the heck out of me that there is no one to complain To who cares. All the $$ wasted! Life of Allstars! I feel where u r coming from!

Exactly nothing we can do but its very annoying.

 

[p.o.k.]

A lot if competition judges/eps do what they want and don't care about who they screw doing it. Last weekend our raw score was lowered 3 pts Sunday for the same routine plus with added doubles! From something I saw in a text the team who got one of the FP bids was already decided Fr night. It irritates the heck out of me that there is no one to complain To who cares. All the $$ wasted! Life of Allstars! I feel where u r coming from!

Why does anyone involved in worlds divisions think raw scores are based on anything real? It is the easiest form of mathematical manipulation once the the uneven application of deductions are applied. After being involved for the past 7 years it has become more and more blatant and in the end it is just a shame.

 

[12stepCheermom]

Why does anyone involved in worlds divisions think raw scores are based on anything real? It is the easiest form of mathematical manipulation once the the uneven application of deductions are applied. After being involved for the past 7 years it has become more and more blatant and in the end it is just a shame.

I think the name "raw" score is part of the problem. In other sports raw score implies that it's the best that routine will do based on a standard set of points...like a raw score in diving or gymnastics is the total point value that dive/routine would be worth if they hit it.

That's so NOT what a raw score is in allstar cheerleading. We don't have a code of points. It's all subjective and it's subjective on a daily basis.

It would be better to call it (almost like) a gross and net score, because all raw score means is what you scored without deductions. It's the gross score and the final for the day with deductions is the net. And people also don't get that it can (and does) change every time you're on the mat, either from judging panels from one competition to another or just plain technique score. If your jumps were terrible day 1 and you focused and actually hit them well day 2 that execution score different will change the raw score regardless if skills were added or taken away from the routine.

On the whole I just think it's a lack of education about what a "raw score" means...which in reality doesn't mean basically anything that you would think it does.

 

[p.o.k.]

I think the name "raw" score is part of the problem. In other sports raw score implies that it's the best that routine will do based on a standard set of points...like a raw score in diving or gymnastics is the total point value that dive/routine would be worth if they hit it.

That's so NOT what a raw score is in allstar cheerleading. We don't have a code of points. It's all subjective and it's subjective on a daily basis.

It would be better to call it (almost like) a gross and net score, because all raw score means is what you scored without deductions. It's the gross score and the final for the day with deductions is the net. And people also don't get that it can (and does) change every time you're on the mat, either from judging panels from one competition to another or just plain technique score. If your jumps were terrible day 1 and you focused and actually hit them well day 2 that execution score different will change the raw score regardless if skills were added or taken away from the routine.

On the whole I just think it's a lack of education about what a "raw score" means...which in reality doesn't mean basically anything that you would think it does.

I realize all this - as I think most people that have been around the block more than once with a child in a world's division. The thing I am getting at is there are certain/times and teams where execution means very little for a raw score. First day out a hit, second day out just a bad day and little if anything changes with the raw score. You know how that is, those teams can "absorb" those errors because their raw score is so high - should it be that high if they can not execute? Well any team can absorb those errors if raw scores are not developed correctly and deductions are not applied consistently. It is just something we have to live with if we are going to participate - however I must say, like I mentioned above, this process as far as scoring inconsistency is concerned is much more blatant than it has been in the past. If EP's want to subscribe to this methodology why not just call it what it is EP choice and then teams/gyms can make their competition choices based on those assumptions.

 

[TheDivineCheerYaYaSecret]

The crazy scoring is there in all divisions, not just the Worlds divisions. It's all subjective.

 

[MissCongeniality]

Sometimes calculating the raw score requires more effort (cough). That's when they pull the accountants counting up the "cash only" door proceeds to do the higher math so the end result is as planned