What if what were doing isn't cheerleading, what if it is something else? (serious)

Discussion in 'Discussing the Cheerleading Industry' started by King, Jun 25, 2010.

  1. King

    King Is all about that bass Staff Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2009
    Messages:
    14,091
    Shimmys Received:
    19,108
    Web:
    Twitter:
    fierceboard
    I am a(n)...:
    Coach
    Verified Member:
    King Harrison
    Georgia Tech Coach
    There are non physical sideline competitions. Chant lines that compete and do cheers against other teams. Is that not also competitive cheer?

    Sent from my Droid Incredible

     
  2. SharkDad

    SharkDad Most Positive, Best Parent '12 Staff Member National Champion

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2009
    Messages:
    4,260
    Shimmys Received:
    5,939
    Location:
    Las Vegas
    Web:
    Twitter:
    shark_dad
    I am a(n)...:
    Parent
    There are already a few offical studies that state that the lack of an independant governing body is one of the biggest problem with this sport at all levels.

    A governing body could provide clear definitions and advocate for the sport rather than let any business leader do it for you. That would allow Sideline Cheer, Allstar Cheer, Competitive HS or College cheer all be valid terms without anyone having to explain themselves.

    It would be great if we could focus on having a functioning governing body to advocate for the sport and fix it's problems rather than try to change how we describe what the sport is or think of new ways to "relate"
     
  3. King

    King Is all about that bass Staff Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2009
    Messages:
    14,091
    Shimmys Received:
    19,108
    Web:
    Twitter:
    fierceboard
    I am a(n)...:
    Coach
    Verified Member:
    King Harrison
    Georgia Tech Coach
    But would a single governing body handle the sport and the non sport side? They are are two completely different animal with two completely different goals. If ever a decision was made that benefited one more than the other everyone would claim the governing body favored one.

    Sent from my Droid Incredible
     
  4. SharkDad

    SharkDad Most Positive, Best Parent '12 Staff Member National Champion

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2009
    Messages:
    4,260
    Shimmys Received:
    5,939
    Location:
    Las Vegas
    Web:
    Twitter:
    shark_dad
    I am a(n)...:
    Parent
    USAG governs gymastics at all levels by having different divisions and committees. I am not an expert on how USAG operates, but I am sure it would probably have a HS committee, college committee, etc each with it's own focus and expertise for the differences at those levels. At the top there would probably be an executive committee that makes sure each of the lower level committees are promoting the sport and activity as a whole.

    This allows the different levels or committes to cooperate, share like information, but still work independant of each other.

    Soccer works the same way. US Soccer has many different levels. Professional to college, to HS, to youth soccer. There are many levels within each of those. I can say rec soccer and it is clearly distinguishable from travel soccer. To someone who is not involved in youth soccer, I would still have to describe the difference.
     
  5. King

    King Is all about that bass Staff Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2009
    Messages:
    14,091
    Shimmys Received:
    19,108
    Web:
    Twitter:
    fierceboard
    I am a(n)...:
    Coach
    Verified Member:
    King Harrison
    Georgia Tech Coach
    But soccer and USAG are all still doing the same things.

    Would you say the difference between high school and premier soccer is equivalent to sidelines and sport cheer?

    Sent from my Droid Incredible
     
  6. SharkDad

    SharkDad Most Positive, Best Parent '12 Staff Member National Champion

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2009
    Messages:
    4,260
    Shimmys Received:
    5,939
    Location:
    Las Vegas
    Web:
    Twitter:
    shark_dad
    I am a(n)...:
    Parent
    I will assume by premiere soccer you mean travel soccer. I would equate travel soccer and HS soccer to Allstar and HS competitive cheerleading.

    I don't know that I would try to equate sideline cheer to any other sport. What I would say is that calling it sideline cheer distinguishes it well and breaks it out into the category it needs to be so that it can be preperly regulated. It is very unsafe right now to have kids doing baskets and pyramids or any building skills without proper training, equipment, or supervision. College kids do them, but they should be getting proper training first. It is still dangerous, but safety precautions are being taken that give it the same relative risk level as the football players they are cheering for. And that level of activity can make sideline cheerleading just as athletic as other forms of cheerleading.

    USAG doesn't allow gymnastics anywhere there isn't proper equipment or trained staff. Why should the governing body of cheerleading?
     
  7. The Sixth

    The Sixth When all else fails.... I shimmy

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2010
    Messages:
    585
    Shimmys Received:
    851
    I am a(n)...:
    Parent
    I can't say I'm very familiar with "chant lines" or anything related to it. But I still have a feeling, at that point it's really just nitpicking, as almost anything can be construed as "competitive".
     
  8. King

    King Is all about that bass Staff Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2009
    Messages:
    14,091
    Shimmys Received:
    19,108
    Web:
    Twitter:
    fierceboard
    I am a(n)...:
    Coach
    Verified Member:
    King Harrison
    Georgia Tech Coach
    You can have competitive scrabble competitions or bridge clubs. Competitive just means you compete at it. You could have competitive underwater basket weaving really.

    And while cup stacking isnt my cup of tea, that sure doesnt make it any less competitive.

    [youtube]AhQoX551Oe8[/youtube]

    I dont think anyone will argue that just about anything can be competitive.
     
  9. The Sixth

    The Sixth When all else fails.... I shimmy

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2010
    Messages:
    585
    Shimmys Received:
    851
    I am a(n)...:
    Parent
    And that was the pt. Because by that same token you could use your term Sport Cheer and say that "sport" is a fairly ambiguous term as well. All going back to the name being of less importance than the way its defined.
     
  10. King

    King Is all about that bass Staff Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2009
    Messages:
    14,091
    Shimmys Received:
    19,108
    Web:
    Twitter:
    fierceboard
    I am a(n)...:
    Coach
    Verified Member:
    King Harrison
    Georgia Tech Coach
    But Sport Cheer provides a clearer separation than sideline and competitive cheerleading. Because sideline could be competitive.
     
  11. SharkDad

    SharkDad Most Positive, Best Parent '12 Staff Member National Champion

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2009
    Messages:
    4,260
    Shimmys Received:
    5,939
    Location:
    Las Vegas
    Web:
    Twitter:
    shark_dad
    I am a(n)...:
    Parent
    All types of cheerleading can be competitive. The types are:

    Recreational (non school or gym affiliated)
    Sideline (HS and College cheerleading at a sporting event)
    HS or College competitive (not sideline)
    Allstar

    No need to make it more complicated.

    Posted from my BlackBerry using BerryBlab
     
  12. King

    King Is all about that bass Staff Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2009
    Messages:
    14,091
    Shimmys Received:
    19,108
    Web:
    Twitter:
    fierceboard
    I am a(n)...:
    Coach
    Verified Member:
    King Harrison
    Georgia Tech Coach
    well as long as they are lumped together it will never be a sport. and all are subject to any issues affecting one another.
     
  13. SharkDad

    SharkDad Most Positive, Best Parent '12 Staff Member National Champion

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2009
    Messages:
    4,260
    Shimmys Received:
    5,939
    Location:
    Las Vegas
    Web:
    Twitter:
    shark_dad
    I am a(n)...:
    Parent
    who is lumping them together? I've seen plenty of pinions, but not by anyone official.

    A governing body or the one created for each type of cheerleading would be in place to ensure the interests of the different participants.
     
  14. Ignis Pater

    Ignis Pater I nugget in the back

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2009
    Messages:
    292
    Shimmys Received:
    274
    I am a(n)...:
    Parent
    I think we are going about this wrong. People outside of this sub culture will never see it as a sport regardless of what we call it. We should be recruiting certain kids, children, and grand children of law makers, state and federal. Also, how about some kids of a couple of ESPN personalities or executives. I am actually serious about this. It could help the way allstar cheerleading is looked at in the future.
     
  15. King

    King Is all about that bass Staff Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2009
    Messages:
    14,091
    Shimmys Received:
    19,108
    Web:
    Twitter:
    fierceboard
    I am a(n)...:
    Coach
    Verified Member:
    King Harrison
    Georgia Tech Coach
    Perception is reality. If everything was highly publicized and talked about I could see that.

    But you can't force movements. They just have to happen.

    Sent from my Droid Incredible